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English Football - How do we make it better?

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by smhbcfc, Sep 12, 2013.

  1. smhbcfc

    smhbcfc Well-Known Member

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    Greg Dyke made some interesting points about English football last week. A major concern must be the recent failures of English sides in tournaments and the apparent lack of young English players coming through. Mr Dyke mentioned that the FA would be looking at several areas, including quotas over the coming months.

    I don't see there being a "magic bullet" to solve the problems - here is what I think we should do:

    • Quotas – I appreciate that applying a quota rule to our leagues would contravene European law, but I think it’s essential. Our young talent is being blocked by cheap foreign imports. I would implement a rule saying that at least 6 players in the starting XI of each game must be qualified to play for England. The rule to be relaxed for Welsh sides to be English or Welsh. This would be applied to all English leagues and domestic cup competitions).
    • Regard the U21, U20 tournaments as being important to the development of our young players and take the strongest team possible - they learn how to play tournament football etc
    • All England teams (all age groups) to play in a similar way (Southgate now oversees all age groups)
    • Reduce the size of the Premier League to 18 ( at the same time restructure League 2 and the Conference to be League 2 North and South)
    • Implement a mid-winter break (and ban teams from playing overseas friendlies during that break)
    • Restrict the number of overseas players entering our Academies (max of 2 per club per age group)
    • Coaching emphasis on youngsters to concentrate on technical skills
    • Change of culture in identifying good young players which currently seems to be about size, pace and power (Messi, Xavi and Iniesta are not big!!)
    • Small sided games/pitches to be extended to older age groups - 13-14 years. This keeps the emphasis on technique, not about who can kick it the furthest.
    • Youth coaches to be encouraged to play ALL kids not just the best ones (you don’t get better by sitting on the bench).
    • Winning is not the be all and end all at that age – more important to teach kids how to play and enjoy it - and let them have the freedom to try things and fail
    • More Premiership money to be ploughed into grass roots youth football – perhaps a FA levy which the FA could distribute to youth set ups that meet it’s youth policy criteria?
    • Work with the Government to enhance school sports and improve facilities
    • Train our coaches better, including making senior badges harder to achieve

    Southampton have an amazing record of bringing through British talent - would be interested to hear your views?
     
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  2. Lovelocum

    Lovelocum Well-Known Member

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    These are mostly good points. The old thing about restricting foreign players is difficult given that we're in the EU. But why would a mid-winter break help?

    Interesting point about the stature of young players- at times I've wondered if some of our academy products are too small to stand up to the rigors of the PL. But you're right on that point.
     
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  3. Saintjoey

    Saintjoey Well-Known Member

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    Good post.

    Strongly agree that the key lies in players taking the U.21's more seriously. Spain has to be the blueprint and they field their best possible players in that category, fostering a team spirit and a winning habit from an early stage in their careers. At the moment, the disregard with which England players treat the U.21's is awful. I had a chat with Gareth Southgate at the Norwich match, seems like a top bloke commited to beginning this process of transforming what the U.21's stand for.

    Beyond that, clubs do have a respnsbility to invest in their academies but I don't believe that English clubs do this less than European clubs (Barca excepted), the difference lies in their willingness to give these players a chance. They then come through as a group of players who know each other, understand each others games and are used to winning together.
     
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  4. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    U21's?? Our problems lie a lot, lot younger than that.

    Don't get me started on this one!
     
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  5. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

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    I think the importance of the under age groups need to be emphasised...even if it means holding them back from being promoted too hastily to the senior squad. This rapid promotion is linked to our dearth of quality, so we may have to accept that England do worse than usual for a few years. I'd rather miss out on a major tournament if it means we are stronger 2-4 years later. A team mentality instilled in the u18, 19, and 21s would result in an increased desire to play in tournaments...the equivalent of sending village boys together to the front in WW1. Increased spending on grass roots football obviously essential, especially on skills. The midwinter break is a problem in the UK...December is often mild, whereas February can be a washout, but hard to predict. Would be chaos in such a crowded schedule if the players took a break only to return just as the bad weather kicks off oop North.
     
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  6. Missing Lambo

    Missing Lambo Well-Known Member

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    Good title. Frankly, the effect on me of seeing England be a world power in football (and I was there in '66) is minimal compared to seeing Saints play great football and be the model for the rest of England. So I care about English football and if we get that right the England team should take care of itself.

    Your points are valid, but as friend FLT has screamed at us for years the problems start right down the scale. My 4 year old grandson loves football and while I fight with his dad over whether he wears his Saints or Liverpool kit for football club we are agreed on one thing. The football coaching we are paying good money for sucks. The boy is a big lad for his age and is in a group with 5 and 6 years olds. The class lasts for 90 minutes, but is not a game of two halves. If 10 minutes is given over to skills development I would be surprised. The pressure "to play a game" is overwhelming and it's not long before this bunch of kids are all charging around like lunatics chasing the ball. Usually, one kid in a Man Utd kit scores about 7 goals by being in the way of the ball as it is going in and his dad is delighted. That his son has learned nothing seems to be lost on him and the other parents/grandparents who are there.The guy running it has FA coaching badges and is himself a former lower league player. We've looked around for better provision and found none. Sadly, when my son-in-law and I play footie with the lad he doesn't want to develop skills he simply wants "play a match" (Saints v Liverpool of course). <doh>
     
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  7. smhbcfc

    smhbcfc Well-Known Member

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    Cheers - To be honest with that point I was thinking about how our players arrive at tournaments already knackered.
    Also it gives time for any niggling injuries to clear up
     
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  8. smhbcfc

    smhbcfc Well-Known Member

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    Great points by all - I think everyone agrees that most of the problems lie with how we teach/coach/develop kids - I just hope that Mr Dyke looks at everything (we need to start soon because many of these changes will take years to bear fruit).
    The opening of St George's Park and using it to "coach our coaches" is certainly a step in the right direction
     
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  9. Huddersaint

    Huddersaint Member

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    English football or the England team?

    I'll stick to a small number of frequently cited problems.

    Young English players cant get into the PL squads because teams want to buy ready made players (often foreign).
    Some Full England internationals dont always seem to wear the shirt with the pride we all expect.
    England players get mysteriously injured just before games (especially friendlies)
    The england team dont get enough time together to work on tactics and gel as a squad.
    Englands players are always exhausted after a hard season and so underprform at major championships.

    How about central contracts (like cricket but with a difference). A core group of players - say 25 are given 2 year contracts to play for England covering the next major euro's or world cup cycle. They form a "Club England" train and play together, in a summer biased (with a long winter break) season they play increased international friendlies, pre-season friendlies v Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man U etc, TV rights, ticket sales etc all belong to the FA and they use that to pay the players.

    I know that clubs are never going to agree to let the Rooney's Gerrards etc disappear off to England for 2 years, but what about all those 18-20 year olds sitting in reserve teams and on the bench that never get a game, would the clubs be prepared to do a "loan" to england for 2 years to help heir development and blood them in international games, they might buy that?

    How about all the Wayne Bridges, etc who sit in clubs like Man city (I know bridge is out now but you get the point) getting no game time.

    What about the older experienced professional who perhaps have reached the stage where retirement beckons and they hang up their international boots but play on for their clubs, If they had a choice to sign a deal to play exclusively for England who could buy them out from their club contracts they might take that to carry on playing professionaly, get one more world cup and an easier playing schedule?

    The more promising championship and lower league club players, there are other Rickie Lamberts out there who would run through brick walls to play for england.

    You would end up with a core squad of experienced professionals and promising youth who would all work together have bags of training and deveopment time to become a well knit well rehearsed team who play all friendlies and most tournament qualifiers without the big stars having to leave their clubs.

    Come the Finals (or crunch qualifiers) the squad gets Augmented with a very limited number (say 5) big name players by application only, if you want to play Mr Ashley Cole please submit your application by next friday. The FA pick the cream only, those that will add an extra dimension to the team.

    I can see a well organised, highly motivated, physically fresh and well balanced team that may not be the best 11 players but will be the best team that we could put out and would give any international side a real challenge, whilst simultaneously developing the very best English youth players.

    Just a thought!
     
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  10. SaintStu

    SaintStu Well-Known Member

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    We all know the problem starts with coaching the 10-14yrs old and the routes for academy graduates to get into top teams. I see nothing that can be done quickly that will change anything before 2018.
    I would like to restrict under 12's to 5-a-side, or 9-a-side on half size pitches.
    I would like a quota system in the 25 man squad in the EPL and Championship to no more than 8 non-UK born players.
    I would like to scrap U21 National sides in preference for Reserve National Squads, these reserve teams will play in the same WC qualifying tournaments. I would also like to see that a call up for either team is mandatory baring a medical examination, forfeiting this is optional but then permantly excludes you from the National squads. Both National squads are managed by the same manager and he/she is allowed to move players between squads at any time.
    IMHO
     
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  11. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Under 12s should already only be 9 a side. My team is Under 13 and this is our first season of 11 v 11. I have already made the club cut the cross bar down as they were too wide.
     
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  12. CBK

    CBK Well-Known Member

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    Put the England national team in a sack, hit it with a cricket bat, throw in some bricks & chuck it in the river.

    It's the humane thing to do.
     
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  13. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    "Them" poor bricks
     
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