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English Football - How do we make it better?

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by smhbcfc, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. Red Hadron Collider

    Red Hadron Collider The Hammerhead

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    "He can play most sports". What's he like at ****ing curling? It's not particle physics <laugh>
     
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  2. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    Nice one.

    I presume your son has grown up watching teams like Barcelona and now Bayern, so he will admire the technical side of the game a lot more and will focus on that.

    Look at the old English coaches - they grew up watching teams like Leeds etc so being physical was a big part, and that influenced their way of coaching.

    New cycle, new beginnings.

    But it's a two part process:-

    - Improve the talent pool by providing better pitches, and playing more smaller games i.e. futsal (sorry Luv!).

    - Improve the standard of coaching so that the talent pool are being nurtured correctly.
     
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  3. smhbcfc

    smhbcfc Well-Known Member

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    Good to hear - keep the encouragement going
     
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  4. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    Oh and another thing which pretty much contradicts what I have said about English youth not being technical enough.

    I think English players have a good level of technical ability. I think the major problem is the confidence and mentality. They can kick and control a ball - but they seem to be afraid to do it when surrounded by 2-3 players.

    If you look at Spanish players, they will pass it to another player who is surrounded but such is the confidence in their ability, they still WANT the ball and are not afraid to use their body strength to keep it then play it.

    There seems to be a fear in English players that if you lose the ball, then the crowd will hate you etc etc, so they're less likely to try fancy tricks. Using Luis Garcia has an example, he would lose the ball by doing something extravagant but he would keep doing it because he was mentally strong and it would pay off eventually.
     
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  5. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    1. Quotas. the UK can do two things. First it can severely restrict work permits ofr non EU citizens. eg... US players, african players etc etc. Second it can lobby in the EU for some new system to boost home country players. even if that system just stops the UK clubs robbing spain blind of u17s for example. you suggestion unfortunately is unlawful and would be thrown out in the eu courts

    2.reduce the size of the league? I totally agree as it would help with fixtures and eleiminate some pointless games thus supposedly increaing competition.

    3. midwinter should read january break. It think it would be ok to do so but no needed par se. there is no harm at all in having it.

    4. you can only cap work permits, anything else will break eu rules. period.

    5. coaching emphasis is indeed vital it should not be an inhibitors at all. technical skills and touches on the ball are what develops players not running. the evidence is patently there, england makes fast wingers... like walcott who could be better off in the olympics sprinting OR journeymen cloggers.

    6. emphasis is part of culture. small kids get weeded out at all levels. you want iniesta or zavi? well its more than that. its about touches on the ball and many german players show what big men can do.

    7. small sided games are indeed vital. every player needs 1000's of touches of the abll to improve.. not 20mins standing round waiting for something to happen. keeps, defenders the whole lot. 8-16 should be about technique and not learning your position on an 11 a side pitch. Learn how to play first then learn where to stand.

    8. youth coaches? ban competition at that age if you want more kids to kick around.

    9. Prem league money into grass roots? change that to catchment area assigned to a club needs to be nurtured by said club. the fa has plenty of dosh but it wastes a lot

    10. coaches? frankly ex players should be banned out of the game. remember David platt in italy... persona non grata witout his quals when i think sampdoria? tried it on to appoint him. ex players like shearer going to newcastle ought not to happen. players should know full well that they would have to put in 5 years on the job as a coach at various levels before they ever get handed a team.

    11.. you forgot reserve leagues. frnakly LFC "B" should be in league 2 or league 1. along with man utd "b" and l'arse B and so forth.... it would improve standards across the leagues, add more clubs AND benefit the national side.

    2.
     
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  6. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    there isn't really.

    they real core thing is increasing the number of touches that each kid get son the ball. ... more touches = more skill development.
     
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  7. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    MITO - I agree with you that the B teams of the bigger clubs should be integrated into the Football League.

    Understandably, there is a lot of resistance from the smaller clubs as they believe it de-values the competition. But as you say, it enables the youngsters to stay with their clubs, play and learn with the same coaches and teammates AND still play competitive football.
     
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  8. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    There isn't a lot of difference but playing on a pitch without walls is one significant difference as it removes the default of trying to play down the line and hope the ball bounces off the wall to stay.
     
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  9. BCR

    BCR Well-Known Member

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    Hire me!! <laugh>


    but seriously..... :bandit:
     
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  10. johnsonsbaby

    johnsonsbaby Well-Known Member

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    You can't overlook the effect the PL has had on young English players, essentially holding them back and stopping their development into the senior game. A need to win, short termism and a lack of trust in young players between 17-21 is stunting their development.

    The home-grown rule tried to alter this but it stopped short at clubs actually having to play the home-growns.
     
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  11. Magic Ted

    Magic Ted Talulah

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    Performance enhancing drugs + bribery. Sorted. :emoticon-0165-muscl
     
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  12. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    We are supposed to suggest how to make it better not state what's wrong with it. <whistle>
     
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  13. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    well... thats indoor v outdoor. it'd be nice to basically link 5 a side... or jumpers for goalposts.... that any kid could play in the dim and distant past and the indoor arena of all weather pitch.

    anyone chain put their kid in the back garden and teach technique.... example today is soccer am effect, how many kids do you know who would not kick snow off a rope but could do these tricks and flicks and such that us old farts never heard of... if you are out i n the back garden a kid can get 200 touches of the ball in a short time with you... or you could dribble round them. don't need some brazilian name on something to tech technique.

    a wall and a ball is enough to teach two footedness. was for me!

    a couple of jumpers down and start passing it.

    my old Sunday league side played 5 a side on an indoor court as training tuesdays and thursdays and honestly they could not pass the ball to each otehr... at all on a sunday... why? cos everyone dribbled.... nobody passed in training... beat 3 and shoot ****e... its all down to the coach to shout pass pass pass in that 5 a side forum to ensure that head down running is not dominant.
     
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  14. BCR

    BCR Well-Known Member

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    How old you talking? You could say this is also a problem as players are so trained to play in the zones, 1 and two touch that there is no room for creativity or a player who can make something out of nothing. It is a fine balance but if all you do is pass pass pass, you create players who don't know what to do if someone is not available or can't create space not only for themselves but their teammates and look to draw the oppoenents out of shape.

    Fine line. Same with possession and purpose. They have to complement each other or else you are just keeping the ball without a thought or purpose as to what the technique and shape is getting you to do.

    A lot of the british coaches around here are fixated on 4-4-2. Not that it is bad, but you can tell it is all they know and they don't feel comfortable with anything else. passing patterns, down the channel, it works at some ages if you have the right size kids but again, what is the point, to win and play direct at a young age, or challenge the kids ( and coaches) with something new and looking to play technical stuff, keeping the ball on the deck?
     
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  15. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    So it seems we all agree that part of the problem is grass roots footy and the attitude of coaches where strong and fast > technique and skill so if we sort out that part of it then we also have to change the attitude of the older managers (can't get rid of them all) the old school needs to rethink and adapt to modern footy or we have a situation when the positives coming from grass roots get coached out as players progress.
     
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  16. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    Spot on Bluff, I also agree on the 4-4-2 problem when things are not going well a lot of British Coaches revert to this formation they don't have the courage to change and tweek the formation that they start with and tend to panic and go with 2 banks of 4.
     
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  17. BCR

    BCR Well-Known Member

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    Quote form Dario Gradi ( crewe )

    While some like to see effort and full-blooded tackles, that&#8217;s not what I want to see. I was a young lad when the Hungarians came on the scene and beat England 7-3 and then there was the Brazilians and Pele.


    The best video I have is Pele: The Master and his Methods and I&#8217;ve had it put it on to DVD. We have a culture in this country where coaches shout &#8216;pass it&#8217; but I&#8217;d like to hear them shout &#8216;Keep the ball, do some work on the ball, show some skill&#8217;. That&#8217;s what excites me and most others who watch football.


    The sentence I use the most is &#8216;you didn&#8217;t play as well as you practised&#8217; and that&#8217;s because of the nerves or the situation. Players need to feel free and relaxed. Nick Powell had only been playing a month and all our kid mascots said he was their favourite player. Why? Because he is a skilful, exciting footballer.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...eed-introduce-quota-series.html#ixzz2eUudaeyz

    Is passing at grassroots important? Absolutely! But it is much harder to teach kids to be comfortable on the ball and in the dribble as they get older than it is to teach passing and some movement. There has to be a balance.
     
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  18. BCR

    BCR Well-Known Member

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    LG, working on getting over in the summer to do my UEFA B, have a friend here who knows one of the instructers from the NI courses and is looking into it for me. <diva>

    fingers crossed, would be huge for me and going forward with what I want to do.
     
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  19. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    I may well be able to help there as my lads coach is Uefa B and has strong links with Cardiff there are courses done at the University of Wales training facility so if the NI doesn't work out I can ask questions.
     
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  20. johnsonsbaby

    johnsonsbaby Well-Known Member

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    Coaches are taught the 'FA Way' - maybe that needs looking at as the F A Way isn't a winning way anymore, if it ever was.
     
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