OT Air strikes against Syria

Not just ballistic missiles, we use 'em in armour-tipped ammunition fired by cannons on A-10's and Apaches.

 

Looks like its been put on hold for a few weeks

 

Let's bloody hope so. my niece's church are doing a charity thing for the Red Crescent and I'm donating. That's the best I can do - don't want MY armed forces getting involved again and being ****ing responsible, in MY name, for another 200k civilian deaths in a conflict that has no end strategy, just like that morass of ten years ago.

 

Strange that the Russian/Iranian news sources have been banging on about chemical warfare for weeks by the rebels. No one gave a toss because the west is doing what they usually do - unequivocally supporting rebels to topple the enemy government without a thought toward whether it is right or not.

At the end of the day the war in Syria is a civil one, and should be treated like one. I understand a line is crossed with chemical and biological warfare but foreign intervention is quite simply illegal and immoral. We haven't a say in how Syria should govern itself. Let them solve their own problems. If a line is crossed step in with peacekeeping but anything short of genocide/chemical warfare should be ignored.

It sounds awful but the rebel factions are in a long term sense worse for the country than the government would ever be. No one mentions that they are radical Muslim and funded by Al-Shabab, or that they have ties to the Muslim brotherhood. No one gives a toss about the atrocities they commit in the name of "democracy" which will never be a goal of theirs in reality.

The government is totalitarian and brutal but before the war they were secular and tried to improve the infrastructure of the country. Much like Gaddafi - despite being an evil ****, he kept the country together and made it what it is today. He was better for the country than anyone else as we see in their chaos.

However strong anti-US countries don't quite last due to media wars and finally interventions. When they are gone the remains are divided by private companies and lobbies alike. What's left is fed to the starving in that country and the people are left to rot in their mess.

I don't support the rebels or the government and I sure don't support the USA. I feel for the people stuck in the crossfire.

 

tony Blair is for intervention. All argument and discussion over, as far as I'm concerned. Give the charlatan a gun and tell him to get his arse off his yacht and go and do it himself if so believes it to be necessary. Better still, take Dubya with you and make a movie about it with Bruce Willis and Mel Gibson. Arsewipe.

 

True, tanks and another shell that requires penetration.

They've also been testing directed energy weapons in Iraq.

Most civil wars in non US friendly countries like say Libya have actually been in part instigated by the CIA, funded and supplied.

 

There's a ****ing, bastard, ****ing, whoring thread for this

 

There's a lot of reports coming out including reports of hacked emails from Washington re planned staging of supposed chemical weapons attack.

Also reports from experts saying some of the videos look staged.

The US again going to war over more imaginary enemies because they need the public to believe there is a good reason to send young Americans to go die in some far off place and of course the billions it generates for their stagnating economy, without the Iraq war the US economy would have went to the wall years ago.

 

Parallel universe time. Phillip Hammond has just been on Newsnight and said that the Parliamentary vote against the government gives the green light to any dictator to gas their civilians. Seriously, that is what he said. To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, you'd have to have a heart of stone not to laugh.

 

Christ those 3 year old actors Were great in the dozens of private videos or did they tell them it was sherbert and go 123 sniff!!!! People looking for conspiracies among straight forward nasty war is just plain sad.

That's not remotely to say that I support intervening, I don't. I support the" behave with us or get nuked" approach. We had the right to our grisily civil wars, atrocities, massacres in our long and illustrious path to now, why shouldn't other states? Off you go and play. Declare war on us however and we reserve the right to obliterate you from the planet. Fairs fair. That's why I support out nuclear deterrent: it SHOULD if we had half a bit of sense allow us to keep to ourselves and stop playing these games without being played with too much.

As for international law, please it's bollox. And even if its a great idea & exists in reality, let some of the other 180 odd (taking away the usual suspects) countries have a go at bleeding for ideals....

We just provide a distraction to the natural progression in these states which merely delays it and kills some of us along the way . I said earlier the method you kill little children with really is irrelevant once you are prepared to do it. Everything else is splitting hairs which is why I find it so sad to see so many in the west hand wringing about methods or trying so hard to claim its all pretend or it was the boogie man etc. the children are dead no matter what was in the rockets or whether they came from Assad or Area 51.....

I mean just how disgusting was it to see Ed the weasel Millibans & his rat pack actually gloating that they'd point scored over that muppet Cameron & how did they win this glorious game? Dead children. The same lot skipped with Tony to kill thousands of children 10 years ago...as well as a whack load of us. Cameron is just the latest macho twat wanting to beat his chest with the mistaken belief that a good war wins you re-election.

We've tried pretending to be policeman enough, it doesn't work. Let the US fo it, they have resources, the might and the fanaticism. There is no glorious holding hands around the world future. its just more rise and fall of empires with everyone else scrambling around the dinner table. If the US has achieved anything, it's been to make sure an Islamic superstate didn't come back into being at a time when they would hold a major chunk of our (especially the wests) current "go juice". Well played says I on my iPhone in my heated house with electricity. To say otherwise while enjoying all I do from our Machiavellian efforts in the last 200 years would make me a hypocrite. If I'm not out building houses in Africa, how serious am I really about making the world a better place eh?

We (UK) hold no actual resources in the Middle East anymore so have no real reason to risk ourselves there any longer. But be clear, we'll need a new teat to suckle because the yanks will now see us as the irrelevance we actually are. That may be a sigh of relief now to some but when what's left is divvied up in the next 100 years I've a feeling the night satellite pics of the UK will be as black as N Koreas. I'll be dead so don't really care.

 

Air Strikes you say?....

please log in to view this image

 

Just about sums the reality up frank

 

**** the conspiracies. Both sides in the Syrian civil war will go to any lengths to win and once the war is over the victor will attempt to eradicate the remnants of the former enemy and any people even slightly suspected to have supported them. Libya is a perfect example, we hear how the French and US went outside of their UN mandate and helped pro Franco US rebels depose the former regime but hear **** all about the people who are still being killed, men women and children.



What will happen once the US protect their interests is that for certain, death toll will increase many fold, and once they are finished the death toll will rise when the blood letting starts, look at Iraq, the killing is still going on daily and at a much higher rate than when the "war" was being fought.

Says it all. The interests are not those civilians dying, why would it be, they've killed so many themselves in "helping" those civilians.
Dick Cheney had David Steele working with the pro US Iraqi forces and he as well as US personnel were in the presence of those forces torturing fathers and son, daughters and mothers for ethnic reasons. Where was the "help" for civilians then, where is it now in Libya where is it in Palestine when only the US can reign in Israel.

The bottom line is, when the US become involved the killing increases and increases even further once they pull out and stand back.

mark my words, when this civil war is done the serious business of killing civilians will begin.

No one knows who is using chemical weapons. Both sides will use them to win I have no doubts. But lets be clear on one point, US interests are the issue for the US, not civilians getting gassed. That is not a conspiracy theory it is a fact.

 

Two very good posts.

Rep

 

First time ever Britain doing there own thing not caring about opinion of big brother USA

 

Who said the real motives behind the US intervention or any "intervention" in the history of humanity for that matter was the conspiracy theory I was referring to? In fact my post you quoted clearly states what I believe US involvement since post Cold War in the Middle East/ North Africa is really about. I'm just not outraged about it. They're doing what everyone has done from the dawn of time.

The sad conspiracy theories I was pointing to is the "the gas attack was staged" it clearly wasn't whoever pulled the trigger or threw the switch as actual real life people died. Staged alludes to acting which diverts attention away from the death & horror and as I and now you have said the method of death is completely irrelevant anyway. Dead is dead.

And that's your (anyone)problem with pretending that violent action other than immediate self defence is for a glorious or higher ideal or cause. It's a lie, your lie gets pulled apart by every inaction under similar circumstances in which you now act.

But we're all proving the point with our crying. Our time in the sun is over, we can't even hang on to the cost tails of the emperor anymore. Whatever excuse the US gives (like we did when we were top dog), Like Russia & China are now doing from the opposite side of the ring is just that, they're the world powers, they can do what they like until:

A) someone bigger comes along (unlikely)
B) like most empires they're eaten from within (not as likely with the US as was with our empire as they are contained within the one continent who's people's agree to be there)

The reason people hate America so much is because they can do what they like and you can't do a damned thing to stop them. Personally I think they're fairly restrained with the power they have at their disposal.

I personally prefer them to the other 2 world powers if I have to have a world overlord...they'll pretend I'm free and pretend to respect my human rights.

But hey ho....

 

I wonder if there is the remotest possibly that the US may actually look at this vote and think "Hmmm, maybe we should pull back this time....."

Nah, France wants to be the official suck-hole this time, so it'll be all systems go. Good luck with that Pierre, but don't expect Uncle Sam to be sharing out the reconstruction contracts when you've helped destroy the Syrian nation.

 

Didn't the French get lost in the desert in the original Iraq war? Maybe they'll convert the nerve gas into a relatively harmless smelly cheese?

Don't mind me by the way folks, in my fatalist the world & it's people are a bunch of **** mode.

I'll be all hopey & aspirational again some time soon..

 

Don't forget central banks, the mechanism of capitalism 4.0 the new way to put countries and their people in never ending debt. You must pay back in dollars and they can **** with exchange rates so you will never be able to pay it back. It ain't just about resources.

Syria has some natural gas it found too.

Syrian farmers can expect also
Paul Bremer's Order 81
Order 81 generated very little press attention when it was issued. And what coverage it did spark tended to get the details wrong. Reports claimed that what the United States' man in Iraq had done was no less than tell each and every Iraqi farmer -- growers who had been tilling the soil of Mesopotamia for thousands of years -- that from here on out they could not reuse seeds from their fields or trade seeds with their neighbors, but instead they would be required to purchase all of their seeds from the likes of U.S. agriculture conglomerates like Monsanto. Seeds only good for one season with no seeds usable from the harvest meaning yes, go back and buy more for every season.

Syria is anti GMO

Does Syria have a Rothschild owned Central bank like almost every country in the world? bar North Korea and Iran funnily enough.

 

Got to have loved the Mail today. Earlier in the week they were urging parliament to vote against Cameron. Today they were full of how Milliband was an opportunistic bastard for, er , voting against Cameron.

Saw a copy of the S^n on the train though. ten out of ten for consistency - they're taking the exact same line as ten years ago in that if we don't stand by America we're destroying the "Special relationship" , and thus endorsing any dictator to eat all their nations' children. in fact, it's akin to appeasing Hitler and we're asking to be invaded - pretty much what the S*n said we'd better believe about the Dodgy Dossier ten years ago.