Ok. Address the point I made then as the rules of football appear to have been re written recently. Over to you.
If its not deliberate, then its not handball.....so if its accidental, then its not a pen I suppose. I know accidental handballs have been given before, but in the case the ref followed the rules. Unless he believes Lampard stuck out his arm to stop the ball on purpose, it shouldnt be given.
Some? Over nearly 150 years of football 'some' accidental hand balls have been given? It is a fundamental of the game. I would say at most 50% of penalties given for hand ball are actually a deliberate attempt to handle the ball. The rest are accidents, which means the rules haven't been followed for bloody decades. That should have been a penalty as it massively deflected the flight of the ball away from goal with his hand. This has always been the case. He raised his hand too. If the boot is on the other foot you would have said pen to Chelsea.
Problem is the rules are very unspecific about the meaning of deliberate. If a defender jumps to block a shot in the box with their eyes closed and arms spread wide, then is it a handball? Surely the player can just say "I didn't see the ball therefore it wasn't deliberate"? As I said in another thread, I think it was a handball as Lampard had his hand in a position where it could very easily have hit the ball. And as Lampard was deliberately throwing his whole body into the path of Cleverley's shot, he was also deliberately throwing his arm into the path of the shot. Also, if you look at the replay Robby posted in another thread, you can see Lampard bring his arm towards his side as he moves towards Cleverley, then the arm moves slightly towards the ball as the shot is taken. Whilst the may be a reflex action, it's still a deliberate action as the player is in control of his arm. Obviously that's all based on my particular interpretation of the rules, but given the endless controversy over similar incidents, including ones that have been given as handball (Carrick in 08) and ones people claimed were handball (Macheda in 10), Moyes is definitely right that the rule needs to be clarified.
The problem is that referees aren't mind readers so they can't tell if a handball is deliberate or not. One way they do this is by judging if a player's hands are in an unnatural position when the ball hits them (ie above chest height), as this could imply that said player has raised his hands deliberately to stop the ball. But it's impossible to know every time if a hand movement is made deliberately, so the ref has to make a guess.
This. With things like this, they will always get it wrong. Sometimes it will be given when its accidental, sometimes it wont be given when its deliberate. Annoying, but unavoidable.
Yes 100% mate, even in real time I noticed he was not even looking at the incident, it was picked up by the commentary team as well.
Everyone is arguing wether it was deliberate handball or not ! Perhaps we should look at it in the way I suspect the referee viewed the incident. There may never be any dispute that ball & hand came into contact - but could the player whose hand was struck by the ball, have been reasonably able to avoid the situation - or have sufficient time to move the 'offending' away ? If we're going to award a penalty every time the ball strikes a hand, the game will evolve whereby the attacking team will deliberately seek to be awarded penalties for handball - giving them a better chance at scoring a goal than from open play, ( of course that's not happening at the moment .)
Moyes is right that it should be clarified. Obviously most handball decisions aren't deliberate in the literal sense of the word but referees are paid to interpret the rules as they see fit. I didn't think there was too much difference between Lampard's and Moxey's for Palace against Spurs. I think in a situation of 'deliberate' handball where it's not deliberate, an indirect free-kick should be awarded as a middle ground.
it definitley was a penalty,he was able to bring his right arm in which allowed for his stability during his jump.but somehow his right arm came out and up?and didn't retract.strange i thought.but they like to appease the portugese one in this country.lol
Lampard knew exactly what he was doing, the only thing that saved him was the distance the ball travelled. That's the only thing the ref can use to justify not giving it...... 100% penalty
If you think Lampard is a cheat, then you really havent been paying attention to his career. One of the most honest professionals in the game If it were almost any other Chelsea player, I may be able to buy it. But not Lamps.
Not a cheat, Cole is the cheat. Lampard wouldn't have known where that ball was going but he left his arm out. [video=youtube;T6U97XIxWIE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6U97XIxWIE[/video]
