I'm wondering if this is a thread keeping up during the season? This is in response to those clichés thrown out at the end of the season such as "the table doesn't lie" and "decisions even themselves out over a season", when there is absolutely no reason for that to be true, it's simply accepted wisdom, and when we try and point out that, for examples, penalty decisions are not distributed evenly all you hear is "sour grapes". So I'm suggesting that this season we back up our "sour grapes" with evidence to show that if there is a margin of say 1 point between clubs, refs contribute quite a lot to the final placings. And believe me, I hope this thread *does not* show such a bias against Spurs this season, because I would rather the final table was based on how the teams played over the season, not how much support they got from refs. I'll add a new article after this as a suggestion of what I mean.
On Wednesday 21 August, Chelsea v Aston Villa. With the score at 1-1, Ivanovic was given a yellow card for an elbow on Benteke. Lambert argued that it merited a red. Ivanovic later scored what proved to be the winner for Chelsea. Late on, Villa had a penalty appeal for a handball by John Terry turned down. It can be argued that as a result of the referees involvement, Chelsea now have 2 points more than they should have.
Great idea this is Vim. Although, knowing our luck it's going to be painful reading it at the end of the season. It might take a while to get through all the pages too!!
Ivanovic one was tricky. I didn't feel it merited a red but I wouldn't have complained if it had been given and we couldn't have appealed. As for the late Villa penalty appeal, Terry was fouled before the incident hence off balance. Never a penalty in a million years but if the ref didn't give the foul, he had to give the penalty. Villa got the 50/50 decisions against Arsenal, we definitely got them on Wednesday, but both sides won on merit.
Ivanovic should've been off. Torres dived for Chelsea's 2nd against Hull. The handball claim was clearly a foul, though and Ivanovic was pushed over in the box against Hull. Chelsea slightly ahead overall in terms of ref's decisions, for me. The only poor decision that I saw in the Arsenal v Villa game (via highlight only, admittedly) was the failure to send off Vlaar. Both penalties were correct, the ref sensibly allowed Villa a chance to take advantage for the first and then drew the game back when there was no advantage. The only other point is that Arsenal's red could've come earlier, as the foul on Agbonlahor was preventing a goalscoring opportunity.
2 penalties in 2 games could shorten the life of this thread - even if it is only 3 since 1964 or whenever.
Maybe this is the season we get 3rd or 4th unfairly cause the refs favoured us. Maybe someone sent them a video of when Bale was chopped down and then booked for diving (although some were, the cheating Spanish diva ) and the Mendes goal on the real day we broke our Old Trafford hoodoo. Would be a nice change.
How about a table in the OP to capture the controversial incidents involving the Mancs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool? Tempted to suggest adding a column showing the effect, but that is never clear. For example Chelsea may still have gone on to win if Ivanovic was sent off?
You could also say that our goal difference may have been greater. While we benifted from a dodgy decision for the penalty, Shelvey did not receive a 2nd yellow and thus be sent off. If the first challenge was a booking then surely the 2nd was too (from the view of the referee anyway, who erroneously gave a penalty). Would we have beaten Swansea by more than one goal or would they have fought back with 10 men to snatch a point? All If's, Buts and Maybe's.
Ivanovic was 50/50, entirely subjective. Some refs would give it, some won't. Torres didn't dive for the 2nd v Hull, but even if he did clear foul in the 2nd half when Ivanovic was shoved off the ball. The Spurs penalty v Palace was give or take but there's no way in a million years the pen yesterday should have been given, Townsend definitely dived. I'd say Spurs and Hull shade the decisions, for me anyway.
Torres didn't dive but Townsend definitely did? Sorry but that's ridiculous. Also no mention the ref gave a free kick to us that was clearly inside the box. Is that not a penalty anymore? And what about being offside for your goal?
http://balls.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/9563563203_7168553abb_o.gif Clear red. Torres blatantly dived, DL. They went over it a few times on MOTD2 and there was clearly no contact whatsoever. As for the Ivanovic penalty claim, I already covered it and said that it should've been given. Our penalty against Palace was obvious. Only Holloway and yourself seem to have any doubt about it. Nice of you to ignore the penalty that wasn't given yesterday, though. Very balanced.
He was clearly fouled in the area once with nothing given, the second one he went to ground easy but was caught on the way down, these can go either way. Swings and roundabouts, Swansea can't complain too much and based on the play it was a pretty fair result. In fact I was disappointed with Swansea, I was expecting better, I tipped Swansea to finish in the top 4, mid table with that performance.
Go easy PNP I haven't even seen the highlights. Even if Torres did dive, the blatant penalty on Ivanovic wasn't given. Ivanovic doesn't even look at Benteke, never a red for me but people will have different opinions.
anyone seen this : http://metro.co.uk/2013/08/26/craig...water-over-referee-lee-probert-video-3937965/
Not really in a position to make your previous claim about refereeing decisions then, DL. Exactly what I said from the start. He's nowhere near getting the ball and makes a massive swing with his elbow without leaving the ground, right in front of the ref. Still doesn't get the ball, despite Benteke going down. It's a clear red.
We were denied a clear penalty, and then given one that wasn't, that's justice, of a rough kind for sure, but justice nevertheless. The pen v Palace was 100% correct, it was clearly handball, there's no debate about that one to me. We deserved two penalties from our first two games and got them. Last season we were effectively robbed of the CL by Arsenal getting penalties that weren't and ourselves not getting penalties that were. Fairness alone will aid us after all the robberies we've been subjected to over the years. If, and it hasn't happened yet, we start to rob other teams through bad decisions I would love it, particularly if it's against the main 'Spurs robbers' over the years, Utd, Arsenal and, admittedly going back a bit, Liverpool.
I think people are being too hard on refs. It's tricky enough taking charge of 22 overpaid primadonnas trying to pull every trick in the book to gain an advantage for their team. We have multiple camera angles, and even with most homes with digiboxes now, we can pause and replay it ourselves frame by frame and in slowmo, the ref has 2 seconds to make a choice ONLY from his or his assistants perspectives. For me they have always been part of the pitch and are part of each game they participate in be it good or bad. I understand some people will say, bad decisions can (and have) cost teams titles, promotions, cups and relegation, but to me, that's the beauty of the game, you just don't know what'll happen. We should be shouting abuse at FIFA/UEFA/FA and not the refs. Until they sanction video replay technology and retrospective bans and full respect for refs a la Rugby union, we're still going to be moaning about bad decisions for a long time to come.
