Firstly, apologies, this really belongs in the transfer thread, but I thought it would get lost in there amid all the Lansbury stats If it needs moving, mods, fine with moi It reckons you should have embraced the challenge while you could, Ola, and that you may now have missed the boat? http://thepremierleagueowl.com/ola-...inbound-at-norwich-city-but-do-they-need-him/
He's been too wishy washy as regards to the idea, no real excitement at the prospect, glad we didn't sign him to be honest, I think he would be a pain for CH and we wouldn't get the best out of him. Were any of you impressed by his international performances?
Initially I have to say I was excited at the prospect of him joining. Now though, I won't lose too much sleep if he goes elsewhere or stays at PSV - this is largely due to the signings we've already made.
I still somehow prefer the idea of a confident-in-possession, ball playing CAM for who that is his specialist position, rather than expecting either GH or RvW to drop back and play in an important role that is maybe a bit less familiar for them? But you're right, Fenland, he's always seemed luke warm in his reaction to Hughton's well documented interest. So maybe not the right candidate - though I'd still like to see an 'upgrade' in that position as I'm not 100% sure Howson or Hoolahan ( or Butterfield?) can provide the quality of service that GH and RvW will need to thrive? I hope I'm wrong.
I think Howson can definitely provide the quality. He has to be moved up the pitch, though. He is wasted as a defensive midfielder. Hoolahan can also provide the quality, though with his style it will unsurprisingly be up and down. No idea re. Butterfield - he may still be considered "one for the future". I think Toivonen is different to all three of these players, as he is closer to a striker. He would be a fantastic addition regardless of how his comments have been reported in the press. I have confidence that Hughton has the management skills to ensure he doesn't lose it.
Park Ji-Sung has just gone on a season loan to PSV. I would ask if that helps to pave the way for Ola to move, but we already know PSV want to offload him anyway.
I'm interested in how you envisage the team being set up Rob, with Howson in an advanced midfield position. As a comparison, take Mancini's Man City last season. They often played with a back four, four "forward" players e.g. Nasri, Aguero, Tevez and Silva, and two in midfield, Garcia and Yaya Toure. The constant cry of those watching was that Yaya Toure needed to be further forward, because he usually started alongside Garcia as a DM pairing. That's how it would stay unless City went behind, or time was running out and the game was heading for a draw. In which case, at some point in the second half Yaya Toure would push forward, Barry might come on (fresh legs in place of Garcia), and they would press to level the match or win it. At the moment that looks a perfectly rational set up for us as well: back 4, four "forward" players e.g. Pilkington/Redmond, RvW, Hooper, Snodgrass, and 2 in midfield, say Fer and Howson. Is that what you have in mind? If so, I don't understand the "Howson has to be further forward" bit. Yes, like Yaya Toure he could push forward from DM, i.e. 4:2:4 becomes 4:1:1:4 at some point depending on how the game has gone. But are you suggesting that we basically play with 1 in front of the back four, not 2? There is of course a rather major further difference between ourselves and Man City, namely the ball possession and passing skills of our back 4 and midfield currently do not match up to those of their Man City counterparts. I think those of us who hanker after another central midfielder are really wanting someone with much more quality in those aspects of his play. Howson, for all his virtues, doesn't quite meet the bill in that respect.
I agree Rob, I would definitely like to see him signing for us, think he'd be the final piece of the jigsaw that we're looking for.
as far as i'm concerned there is not a strongest eleven anymore - that might change as the season progresses but the whole point of bringing extra quality in is so we can be more flexible and play a variety of ways. asking fans to define a single way of playing or personnel is pointless. i'd still like to see toivonen if possible. cracking player
I honestly think some people get too carried away with the old formation/tactics thing, I really do. It wasn't so much of a case last season. but under Lambert how many points did we manage to pick up in the last 15 minutes of games? **** loads! And in those matchess, by the last 15 minutes how many times were we playing in anything like the formation that we started those particular games? Hardly ever if at all. We would invariably end up with four up front and only three at the back, chucking the kitchen sink at the opposition and more often than not it tended to reap rewards. Yes, of course it is important to set the team up from the first whistle and to attempt to take control of the game from an early stage, but in all my years I have yet to see a game of football where the three points are awarded in the first half, or even with just ten minutes to play, so it is more important to have options and be able to change the tactics as the game progresses and dictates. I don't mean options as in a rigid plan B, C, D etc, rather the players who can make a difference and impact on the result.
Sums up how a number of English football fans feel - they'd much rather discuss signings. Rafa Benitez joked that on joining Napoli he received more questions/queries regarding tactics by Italian fans in the first half hour of being appointed than in the whole of his English managerial career!
I think that could work, though considering Fer's ability I would see that as a very aggressive formation for use at home to, e.g., Hull. I actually see Fer as the more likely candidate for pushing forward in those situations, with Johnson as the other DM sitting more disciplined in front of the back four. I see Howson in a completely different formation, coming in at the top of a midfield triangle in the 4-2-3-1 formation or alternatively at the tip of the diamond in the 4-1-2-1-2 formation. Howson does work ok in a flat four midfield - my complaint is where we play two defensive midfielders, with Howson as one of them and, e.g., Hoolahan in the position I would anticipate for Howson.
This is true. I now look at our squad and see that I want to have about 15 players on the pitch and can't pick between a few of them. Luxury!
I'm not saying that it proves anything either way, but in the past six seasons there have been seven English clubs in the finals of either Champions League or Europa Cup compared to just two Italian sides
And I think Benitez was more having a dig at Chelsea fans and the English press than English fans in general. Benitez is a bitter, bitter man and, in a sense, I have some sympathy for him given the ridiculous treatment he was subjected to by Chelsea.
I'm sure Rafa Benitez would have found the same joining a club in virtually any other country in Europe apart from possibly Norway. In this country, it isn't that formations and tactics haven't played a part, it is just that for well over half a century there was a mindless belief in the efficacy of one particular way of playing, the so-called English way. The Hungarians exposed this myth in the 50s, the South Americans and Southern Europeans have been exposing it ever since, and with the advent of the Premier League and the arrival of managers like Wenger, Benitez, Mourinho, Mancini etc. we can no longer stick our heads in the sand. Even the FA have seen the light with their revamp of the coaching in this country. Every consistently successful team has a "preferred" way of playing which not only guides match by match selection but also who is signed. It is a complete myth that you do well just by signing top quality players. The reason why Lambert behaved as he did was quite simply because he had no alternative, so strapped was he for funds. Don't tell me the FA has managed to outstrip English football fans in their appreciation of what is needed for success on the football field!
Whether there is a "strongest eleven" any more is a quite different question. I agree that we have thankfully made great strides towards making that concept redundant, and I have been going on all summer about needing depth in the squad to allow rotation on a regular basis (not just to combat injuries and tiredness, but to make sure everyone has proper regular game time and we can rotate without seriously weakening perfomances on the pitch). But as I say, that is a quite separate issue from how the team is set up.
Regarding "asking fans to define a single way of playing or personnel", with respect you misunderstand me. Most of my posts over the last couple of weeks have been concerned with how we think the most obvious weakness exposed last season is going to be addressed: that is, our inability to continue to play our game when subject to consistent pressure. When that happens, when we regain possession at the back and find no obvious "safe" possession-retaining out-ball into midfield, there is no alternative but to boot the ball long. Finding a solution to that issue is the most pressing issue now as far as I am concerned. When Rob says Howson is best in an advanced position, I agree with him. But playing him in an advanced position doesn't seem to me to address the main issue, indeed it is likely to exacerbate it. Hence my wanting to know more from Rob. We have improved our forward players, but our defence is the same as last season apart from Ohlsson. We have brought Fer in in midfield. OK, how is the addition of Fer expected to make all the difference? That's my question.
