http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/22058/8849708/the-midweek-report-episode-10 This video gives a short clip with the onboard footage of the contact with Jenson Button yet I don't see him do anything wrong other than Jenson was the person to get closer while Romain just keeps his wheel straight and reacts with Jenson's slight weave beside him. Racing incident IMO. With regards to the Massa incident I thought the defender had to give at least a cars length of room? Massa pretty much pushes him off the track!
I said at the time Button was the one turning into Grosjean ruining his race. But unfortunately grosjean is the boy who cried wolf
Is there footage from Button's car? That would be more useful I think. Watching it back it reminds me a lot of Grosjean's crash at Spa actually, it doesn't look like he deliberately tries to run Button out of road (I'll admit the other camera angle made that look worse than it was), it looks like it's more clumsy than anything. It is a tricky one though because I don't understand how Grosjean can't have seen Button.
I'm sure there's a helicopter shot that shows button was glued to the white line and was forced onto the grass by grosjean. As for the Massa incident I think that was mean on Grosjean.
I've said all the time that Button comes back on track and hits Grosjean. But the stewards are just ******ed
You know when you look on board with Vettel with his collision on Narain Cucumber at Malaysia you can see Vettel turning right to avoid him and thus showing he did nothing wrong. But while looking at the on track camera it just makes it look like Vettel is in fact turning into him. But in reality the track is just bending slightly to the right and fooling our perception. Just before the overtake was happening between them (Romain and Jenson) you can see the track bend slowly to the right, so my theory is that Romain is keeping his steering straight and believing he is doing everything by the book and not crowding Jenson, while the other is in fact turning himself to the other because he is following the edge of the racing track and sounding like he is being crowded yet he doesn't lift eventhough Grosjean has already nailed him.
Yeah from that angle it looks pretty straight but I would love if it was focused directly on the white line rather than the Fly Emirates sign behind. Maybe Romain just expected Jenson to yield and try a cut back, though being on very used rubber.
...drift steadily left to the point where there's about half a car width between him and the grass while another car's alongside him? It was poor driving, he admitted it, he apologised for it, lets move on.
I don't agree. You cannot tell from the on-board footage. Using 'on-board' to pass judgement is like driving a car without using mirrors: one rarely sees the bigger picture. The head-on TV camera shows the incident very well: Grosjean drifts left just before the point where Button needs to steer to negotiate the corner. Grosjean's fault. Button innocent. âEspecially as he was already squeezed and would have expected (with full justification) a more aware driver to allow the necessary room to tandem around the corner, since Grosjean already had the inside of the turn. That's standard race-craft. Much as I like Grosjean (he's one of the nicest guys one might hope to meet) â and he's also a seriously quick driver â he either needs a bit more schooling in race-craft or, more likely, lacks some spacial awareness: the 'tunnel vision under stress syndrome' rarely seen at this level.
I've just noticed that BLS has posted a picture from the camera I mentioned. Thanks BLS. If anyone thinks Button is in any way responsible, please get on a track with a half-decent instructor. As for the Massa incident, which I have not referred to at all in this forum; due to public perception, there may be room for more debate. This is unfortunate however, because the rule is absolutely clear and it is vital that all stewards interpret it in the most consistent manner. Grosjean's overtake was breath-taking, daring and, on the face of it, admirable in the extreme; and had it not been for the introduction of what should be an unnecessary rule, we would be in unison that it was a truly awesome accomplishment. The trouble is, because of a couple of drivers in particular, both well into the past now, that there is a rule, and it was contravened. The nuts and bolts of the Grosjean v Massa incident are that in order to make the pass stick, GRO had to go outside the track boundary. MAS, being fully committed to the corner and on the limit of adhesion had little choice but to continue closely to the line he'd committed from the apex, and while still clearly ahead, which he is fully entitled to do. I say "closely" because in fact, he did not run up the exit kerb with his right wheels, which is the normal racing line at almost every corner at Hungaroring – and especially that one. In this sense, MAS was altering his line to accommodate GRO but it was a defensive line which GRO could either comply with, or fully commit with the risk of HAVING TO go outside the track boundary to accomplish. The ruling seemed harsh. It was a great shame and I personally wished, for this occasion, that McNish had turned a blind-eye rather than used his beady one. But actually, I believe it was the correct decision. If a limit is set which defines a rule, it must be applied consistently so as to negate debate. These sorts of incidents have caused furores in the past; but I'd like to remind people of the frequent discussions we've had which criticize track run-offs as not being sufficiently punishing for those who deliberately choose 'marginal' lines and may overcook it. Above all, we must be consistent. Penalising Grosjean seemed very harsh. But actually, it was correct.
For me it was a racing incident, but I can understand why Grosjean was given the penalty - even if we all know that "other" drivers may have gotten away with it. I liken the incident to Lewis/Koby in Spa where by the overtaken driver holds the outside (racing line) into the corner. By doing so the intention is not to re-overtake the overtaking car, but to hinder the entry line of the overtaking car into the corner and maximise your own entry line into the same corner. Its natural racing to prevent a competitor from having the maximium entry speed into a corner to potentially gain an advantage on the exit of the corner. In addition the Button/Grosjean incident was probably slightly affected by the Alonso stalking in the background. Either way I find it hard to see this as Button's fault, even though it could be argued that it was uneccessary and pointless from both drivers.
That's a good comparison actually, I'd forgotten about that incident. Once again, Hamilton seemed to have just forgotten that Kobayashi was there, when he'd pretty much already made the overtake.
Quite. The ruling was harsh unless it is applied consistently, so every driver who gains an advantage by going beyond the limits of the circuit should get a drive through penalty. Despite being a Grosjean defender last year, (many of the first lap incidents, such as Monaco and Silverstone, were not his fault), I do think the Button contact was mainly his fault. The stewards applied two penalties, but got them the wrong way round.
The Button incident, well, lets take a look at what he does, he puts button on the grass, which then causes contact, and to finish off he cuts the chicane to make the pass stick, so really there should be no complaints (which there weren't from Romain), the Massa incident is the letter of the law, harsh, but ultimatley fair. Romain isn't the first driver to have a few accidents early in his career, he's fast enough to become one of the drivers top echelon of drivers, he's certainly tidied up this season, another few seasons and he'll be there, experience is the key.
