With most allegations of wrongdoing the presumption is innocence until proven otherwise. In the case of 'offensive' comments of the nature we've debated on this thread, the pendulum has swung the other way such that the person making these comments is immediately labelled as racialist, homophobic, sexist etc. on the basis that another party's 'offence' is proof enough. How the hell do you really measure 'offence' and the damage caused by it? Is there a gauge for the degree of the person's outrage, upset or anger? In cases of negligence, as a slightly obtuse example, the plaintiff has to prove that they have suffered loss as a consequence of the other party's actions. In the case of 'offensive' comments the only real loss is surely only in terms of self-esteem, something extremely difficult to measure and not necessarily a permanent state of affairs. In my infinite ignorance, tangible loss would only seem to arise from escalation beyond a simple trade in 'offensive' comments to prejudicial treatment, discrimination, violence etc. I know this is extremely simplistic to the point that you can drive a truck though it, but I'm back to an opinion that some people need to grow thicker skins, develop a sense of humour and let some stuff wash over them.
I dont think homophobic abuse is acceptable but I dont think its homophobic abuse just as I dont think its sexist abuse to tell a player to "man up" or hes "playing like a woman".
Fair points. But growing a thicker skin and having a sense of humour and not wanting to hear particular types of abuse thrown round are not necessarily mutually exclusive, particularly as particular individuals and groups have been dealing with these issues for long while. After all, I still regularly leave my house and attend football matches. But, as I've said before, there's a huge difference, in my opinion, to jokes between friends - where boundaries are known - and pure abusive behaviour.
Nor do I. Never said it was. I supplied a few examples which can be regularly heard at matches. The LFC list may have taken things too far, but this doesn't mean everything's acceptable, surely?
Totally agree with that - if you call someone, who is a stranger to you, certain derogatroy names then I wouldn't call that banter.
I do agree, but I also take the view that comments of this nature from a complete stranger are frankly worthless. If you look at the majority of the people that say the truly frightful stuff, they do appear to have significant challenges of their own to overcome. For me, hatred of this type is nothing more than a reflection of the haters own inadequacies.
No of course not, the point was theyve lumped stuff that even their manager has said publicly in with bad insults which no one finds acceptable. All that does is weaken the attempts to get rid of the bad things in football.
And I totally agree with that too. I seem to spend a lot of time agreeing with Rs fans today - must be the heat
