Is it not discrimination colour coding ST books based on age and sex? Hence you know if some is over or under 65 at a glance. You know if a female is over or under 18 etc. What next colour coding based on race or religion. They would not dare but it is the same principle. A bit like an employer giving you a colour coded security tag based on your age. There would be uproar.
I would love a colour coded season ticket!! Wouldn't care about the colour though, due to colour blindness!
Fair enough but there is a principle here. The club not only had our name, address and categorised as a number. They now have our picture and along with that are revealing our more personal data shown on clear view to members of the public, our age range. As stated earlier you can clearly tell if a young woman is over or under 18. You can tell if a man is under or over 65. How many young members on here have pretended to be older than they are, we even have colours which show if young male and females are under 12. I know it may not matter one iota in some people's eyes, hence why boundaries are allowed to be stretched further and further by the policy makers. Why don't they just insert us all with a micro chip from birth which can be uploaded with data which categorises you accordingly. I'm sure I'm to deep for people to understand. Because someone will use somewhere as an example that it must be ok because we already use it in another aspect of life. Bloody hell, I only want to watch a football match! I should be able to freely turn up to watch a football match, with pennies in pocket as I did as a young kid and make my entrance. Oh just thought, I can still do that to a certain degree...just don't be an ST holder.
I no longer have a season ticket, and can actually see both sides of this argument, In the 15 years that I did have a season ticket I never let anyone use it, (on average I probably missed 3 games a season), but not giving it to someone else was not for any other reason than nobody I knew wanted to borrow it! However for the last 3 seasons I have borrowed my friends season ticket, allowing me to sit with people we used to sit with, this was only 4 times in 3 seasons, I have been to about 25 matches in that time quite a few of them on the deals he gets as a STH, the fact that he can't lend me his ticket now doesn't worry me but I can understand the feelings of those who have bought a seat for the season and feel that it they are within their rights for that seat to be used for every match. I know 2 people who support other clubs who would be interested in this though, 1 is a Crystal Palace fan who for many years has bought 2 season tickets one for himself and one for his guest, and he takes different people with him son, daughters, wife and friends, all go with him (I have been a number of times) and why not he has bought 2 seats for the season, another is a Charlton Fan he has 4 boys aged between 7 & 14, he cannot afford more than 2 season tickets but takes a different son each week and personally I cant see a problem in either for these cases and so far neither do either of the clubs concerned.
I'm guessing from this new policy they would probably like to know if you are unable to attend and they will want the opportunity to re-sell the seat. Again that will have the counter argument of we never fill Priestfield which is mostly true but im guessing the club would like the option to resell it.
Are you still worried that I am " cheating the Club out of money ? " Fact .. I have paid, in full, in advance, for (two adult) season tickets. Fact... The Club would expect ME to occupy my seat for all league games - therefore Fact... The Club would NOT expect to gain ANY more money from 'my' seat for league games. Fact... The 'non-transferrable' rule does not suggest the ability for me to notify the Club when I am unable to attend matches ( THAT will never apply to me - so we are talking principles.) Nor do the T & Cs allow me the opportunity to receive any (part) refund on those occasions. I would defy any STH to say that they would notify the Club when unable to attend matches - so that the Club may re-sell the seat for the game(s) WITHOUT offering a refund to the STH. Fact... The Club is NOT losing any money if I do not use my season ticket ( please remember I am NOT compelled to notify the Club on those occasions.) FACT - The non-transferrable aspect of season tickets is a nonsense - especially (as I suspect) the majority of STH who feel aggrieved about the situation are concerned because it impacts on season tickets that are in the name of other family members - who are more likely to be occsionally absent.... The Club should really try to apply a bit of common sense. Last FACT (for now) - just to allay your fears that the Club might be losing / cheated out of any money.... If my (adult) son cannot attend an occasional game, the guest that I have brought along has usually spent 'well' in various outlets within the ground - the Club will lose that money if they prevent any transfer of my son's season ticket.
I think what is even more laughable in this whole matter is the fuss the club made last season over ticket touts for FREE tickets. To which I supported. Yet now the club are applying the same principle to a very minor level of observation. By taking a friends for a fiver voucher or £5 from you for your FREE seat. It appears everything is wrong if applied as a supporter but right if applied in a business aspect as a football club.
I shall be sending an email to Paulo. I shall be courteous ( as I hope will be all other emailers ) - but I shall not leave him & the Club in any doubt about how I feel ( despite normally being a very shy person ) I will be comprehensive in my argument. I will be very interested to know how the Club can justify their discrimination of STH. The 'non-transferreable rule' and its' constraints ONLY affect STH. With regarding to the proposal of 6 tickets - of no monetary value to be exchanged when a STH cannot attend a match - I would say that realistically we may not 'expect' more than 4, otherwise it wouldn't have been cost effective for a supporter to buy a season ticket instead of matchday tickets. On the subject of matchday tickets - a further way that STH are discriminated against is that, if I wish to return an unusable matchday ticket, I can do so and obtain a full refund ( subject to timescales ) - a STH cannot do that ! --- even my useless local supermarket took back those unwanted 80 tins of catfood - and even tried to refund more than I originally paid. I too urge all STH to contact the Club, at the email address in the link. ( [email protected])
Thanks alwaysright. I will also contact that email address before the start of the season on Saturday. Hopefully I can put in a constructive manner. Might need some medication first. Also I think this might also be a matter for our MP's. I have concerns to the purpose in use of ID cards and colour coded books to depict you age. I will know when you get to 65 my friend - lol - its like a 12 year old child going to a restaurant and forcing them to have the child meal, when they want to appear grown up. Its like assuming a young woman has to wear a label of pink, because the club depict you in that way. Most importantly what this all says about the club is they DO NOT trust us! Anyone know an MP on twitter I can contact that might want to pick this story up?
Sorry but all this talk of discrimination is down right laughable. Season tickets have NEVER been transferable...ever. The issue is they could never enforce it. Now they can and you all want to cry about it? I'm disappointed, but it's fair. If you want to be petty and argue the colour coding is discrimination, then be petty. It sounds childish; like you haven't gotten your way and you'll nit pick at anything to do so. I think people forget this team is a business...and if it listened to fans all the time, it probably wouldn't be existent.
I think everyone realises that the Football club is a business, but the life blood of that business is the supporters and particularly the season ticket holders who commit before a ball has been kicked to go to watch the team throughout the season and this strikes me as a very petty change and one that is not standard practice at most clubs (I refer you to my previous post on this subject). And ageism is a form of discrimination, surely once you have a photo ID that should be sufficient to confirm someones age, and what next a membership scheme for non season ticket holders as well so that you can only buy tickets if you are a member with an ID card? I suspect this is the thin end of the wedge.
Sorry but I disagree. I respect your view, especially as debate is about alternative arguments, which I enjoy to assist in putting everything in perspective. However, I ask you look back through my comments, at no time have I aimed my views at other supporters other than to suggest there is a divide on opinion between ST and Non ST holders, just an observation. Yet you seem to think we sound childish and nit picking. So let me start with ID cards. My views have always been clear and consistent regarding people's freedom of movement without restriction. Well before the Club decided to introduce ID. I give immigration as just one mere example I have spoke of in the past. Look at my twitter profile as another example... Traditionalist. Hate EPL. Revolutionary against the modern game. Distrust media & governments. Logical but to complex for box thinkers. Free will or Determinism. So in my mind the club are crossing my own boundaries. Tough on me fair enough but I don't think someone's view should be deemed as childish. As for nit picking, I have always been against ageism and sexism although we all step into that area unintentionally but it is about recognising we do so. Colour coding, places people into categories and as I have highlighted previously many other aspects of life includes this but it does not make it right. This is not aimed at the club and I know I will be dismissed but imagine if there was colour coding based on race and religion. How about I colour code everyone's profile on this website according to age and sex is that acceptable. I stated before every rule created, will see another follow. Where are the boundaries. What gives corporate businesses (GFC aside) the right to people control via ID or any other method. I can partly understand the protection of our safety but there seems to be a continued overstepping of these boundaries. As I said earlier, what happened to TRUST? I have never made gain from Gillingham Football Club, unless you call a pint of beer between friends a gain, I am guilty. I have always tried to help Gillingham supporters to get tickets at face value. Let me make that clear though, if a ticket is free they will get it for free. I have never sold a ST game to anyone I have passed my ticket too. Still this will not be a problem next season because I will be reconsidering my options. I ask the same question as I have asked of other opposite opinions are you an ST holder Damo666, if so, do you go to all games, if not how many do you miss and what do you do with your ticket in those instances. Do you think it is right that I have paid more for my ST now in knowledge of the changes (yes, I know not according to T&C's), than I would have done if I had been informed beforehand. I said before if it was a place of employment common practices would uphold in an employment tribunal. The club were not consistent in the past on turnstile checks so that left a loophole. Just because they intend on implying it now does not make us wrong in our argument. I am quite happy to accept I being wrong on my arguments if I was able to see a clear argument contrary to my opinion. I'm ready for everyone to shoot me down now but I'm done on this thread.
Damo666 Discrimination is NO laughing matter. I do not want to get in too deep into the politics of the matter ( brb quite rightly raises the point that there is MUCH politics involved )- but - Why can it be fair that a 'casual' supporter can obtain a FULL refund (subject to timescales of ticket return) if they do not use their ticket - yet a STH CANNOT get even a part refund ? Would you think it fair that, if a 'casual' supporter wasn't able to use the ticket - and wanted, not to return the ticket - but to 'give' it to a guest - and the Club insisted that an additional £ 5 was to paid......that suggestion, to me is, as you say - laughable. I have NEVER been under any illusion about the fact that season tickets are ( never not been ) non-transferrable.... but the Club are being downright greedy in trying to extort more money out of a group of supporters who commit a lot of money in advance etc. STH may not be any more loyal or passionate about our Club as non STH, but why should we suffer discrimination of conditions not imposed on 'faceless' fans ( no disrespect intended ).
Full refund for non ST holders? Last time I checked (and there are signs in the ticket office to back this), all purchases are final. You can upgrade a ticket from a child to adult, I know that much (not sure if you can downgrade). The way the team sees it, you have committed to attending every game by buying that ticket and it's tough if you aren't able to....by allowing someone to use it instead in their mind you're taking away a potential customer. Business is cruel. Discrimination is no laughing mattr, you're right, but the notion the club is discriminating against us is purely hilarious. In response to BRB, I know of one game I will fail to attend for stag weekend, but nothing else as of yet. I'm as disappointed by this is the next fan, but I'm not about to go OTT over it all. I understand the teams reasoning and I can understand why people are upset...but lets not be rash over all this. It's just silly.
Look you don't have to have at go at me for this! Im not worried that the club is losing money, I can just see the argument that they may want the seat available for someone else as they will be losing out money on potential revenue made on programmes, merchandise sales, food and drink etc. Now you may not pay for any of these things which is fair enough, but I can see the club probably moving to instigate this regulation. I see both sides of the argument, again the counter is Priestfield is hardly ever fill so what difference would it make. If you read that fansonline post that grumpygit put on you will see that this decision has come from above Paulo which then points at the directors or the chairman. Im not saying its right but at the same time im not saying giving your ticket away that is intended fpr that named person only is also right. Mean at the end of the day us non-season ticket holders have to pay to get in so why do they have to get in for free. Thats why I think its important for you season ticket holders to campaign to have the value of your ticket refunded if you cant go.
Tickets are NOT final -( despite what may or may not be written on them )- in as much that it IS possible to return matchday tickets to the Club - up to 24 hours before a game and get a FULL refund. I have purchased extra matchday tickets - which on a couple of occasions could not be used. I was able to return them, intact, to the Club and got a FULL refund. With regards to my season ticket HOW can I be preventing another potential customer from taking up my seat ? I have paid for the privilege of my seat being reserved for ME (& NOBODY ELSE being permitted to 'buy it again' ) for ALL league games. The Club CANNOT expect to be able to sell my seat twice. I don't want to fall out with you on this. I appreciate that you can at least see it from the viewpoint of a STH. I make no apology for only having a 'selfish' viewpoint. I do understand that the recent message originates from the Chairman. The arrogant tone of the message was a bit of a giveaway ! The issue has nothing to do with programs, food, drink, lottery tickets, merchandise etc - it is about the ticket allowing access to the ground to occupy a seat to watch a game of football. Please note the above response to Damo666. I am not entirely happy that there are certain constraints & conditions which only target STH. I am able to accept ALL of them - except the matter relating to ADDITIONAL expense for purchasing a ' friends for a £5 ' ticket just because a couple of times a season my younger son will be unable to use his season ticket. I can very easily afford the expense - but find it difficult to accept the discrimination against STH who are unable to get any form of refund for unused tickets - as I have done without ANY fuss with matchday tickets. As you rightly say, STH should focus on this point in their protest to the Club. I have sent my email to Paulo and made this point very clear.
I've sent my email to Paulo as well. I have tried to tone it down, while at the same time making it clear that I am not happy.
Well I can give an update on this story after talking to a guy at the pub last night who reckons he knows a few people in the ticket office. Apparently, the Great Man (scally) is pleased as punch at the way supporters have reacted. He reckons all future changes to terms and conditions will be unannounced at the time of sale and just introduced retrospectively. The Great Man reckons there is no point in allowing people an excuse not to complete a sale and in any case supporters like to be treated like vermin. Apparently some poor sod in the office spoke up and said this was poor customer service but the Great Man gave him the hairdryer treatment and was reminded that the word customer does not apply to users of a local monopoly and that these people were just a source of cash who needed to be treated with contempt. Somebody else mentioned the case of the poor guy who can only afford two tickets to share between him and his four sons but the Great One had no sympathy and explained that it was not GFC business to solve problems caused by poor birth control. Apparently, what the Great Man is most pleased about is the way season ticket holders have gained such little sympathy from their colleagues who buy single match tickets. it is an opportunity to divide and rule he says. so, there will be a number of unannounced new initiatives next Saturday. First of all there will be DNA testing of single ticket holders to make sure that they were the same person who bought the ticket. It will be quite simple and will only take an hour or two (a "fasttrack" lane will be available for those paying a £10 supplement which will guarantee entry by half time). The Great Man will be reminding people that tickets (just like season tickets) are not transferrable and he has heard outragous stories of other people using single match tickets who were not the original purchaser and he is determined to stamp out this practice. The other big initiative is going to be admission to your seat by programme only. This is meant to counter the proposed protest of not buying club merchandise. As the Great Man explained people often attend events by production of a programme so the Priestfield version will mean that your match ticket gains you admission to the ground and then the purchase of a programme will enable you to go and sit in your seat. This will shut out any protest movements organise by troublemakers like brb and alwaysright. Anyway, i am sorry to be spoiling the surprise for people when they get to the match on Saturday but I just thought it was worth reminding supporters that if they do not stick together when retrospectve changes are made, then we will all be the losers.
bristol407 - I like your touch of humour, that is brilliant. I can't wait to read alwaysright's response...lol
Coming from a guy on fansonline, this pretty much sums it all up for me: "I think the point is that letting someone else other than the owner of thr the season ticket is 'fraudulent use' as tickets are non-transferable. Giving the season ticket to somebody else in your absence is potentially reducing gate receipts as that person might otherwise have paid £20 to GFC to watch a game on a matchday. I can't lend my train season ticket to my wife at the weekends when I'm not using it. I can't lend my monthly cinema pass to my son to watch films when I am at work. When I have 2 hours left on a parking ticket, I'm not supposed to pass it on to another driver when I drive past him/ her on the way out. When I'm not using MS Word, I cannot lend the license to a friend for him to write a document. Are you going to take this fight wider and confront SouthEastern trains, Cineworld, NCP and Microsoft?" This has always been the way. You have never, ever been able to transfer a season ticket but they're only just starting to police it. I would like to see a compromise from the club and maybe give you some stubs to transfer your ticket for free, at a limited number (say the average number a fan missed was four games then you get four free transfers), to meet us in the middle. The sad fact is there are people who will make money from their season ticket and Gillingham FC know this...sadly it means everyone suffers. A compromise would be a mature way to deal with this.
