I really am not arguing for the sake of it, it is more because I just don't think that the average arsenal fan really understands the strict financial situation we have been in. All the language used in discussion, even yours, seems to assume that we could have somehow spent money we didn't have to buy more players, that would have prevented players being sold. The money just wasn't there. Without those players leaving we wouldn't have been able to buy anyone at all. There was no chance of getting more players to stop other players from leaving. I don't think there was this choice to be made once the stadium project was started. Once they jumped in, there was no point 5 years later where Wenger could say, let's spend 50M on players, they had made their decision for the next 10 years. No new players, whether it was to prevent players leaving or not. Now the really big mistake was the wage structure. How much money they would have had for players if they had not made a balls of that, God only knows. PS - Seeing the transfer window attitude this year, do you really think one 10-15M signing would have stopped RVP or Fabregas leaving? I don't think so.
Signing the odd player would realistically have made no one player stay the argument would be more to do with the fact signing players would put us in a better chance to challenge and win trophies hence make players stay. There is no guarantee that the other method would have worked any better than the current philosophy it is too a slight extent a case of grass is greener on the other side. However I on the other hand I don't believe the no money whatsoever argument either. We have generated a profit almost every year and have on more occasion been told by the board money was available (for the last 2-3 years). I agree the biggest impediment to our growth was our poor management of our wage structure and the revolution of the billionaire clubs throwing the transfer market for a loop. Which more than anything has crippled us because pre the Roman period Arsenal could probably compete with most clubs even under financial restrictions. But my biggest complaint with the club is that post 07 especially this club has stagnated we have got worse or stayed the same year on year but as long as we finished in CL spaces no one in management gave a rats arse. While the 10 year plan would always mean we will be playing catch up, stagnation couldn't have been part of the plan. We needed a correction sooner which we did not do financially or, until the last 3 months, tactically. Once the financial model of survival was failing the board didn't take a reasonable risk to correct it financially. While wenger didn't change the system tactically because of a relative stubbornness to his philosophy. As fans - beyond the WENGER OUT OR BOARD **** brigade I do feel as a fan relatively let down over the last 5 years as to how the club is run both on and off the pitch in relation to the team. Other things like sponsorship and commercial revenues side has been impressive and it is interesting how we go forward, it should shine a light on a lot of what different groups have been saying. I would like to add I want Wenger to be Manager, I do think he can take us forward, However i don't want him to be offered a new contract until the end of the season. This is the season he, the board, and the team need to shut up or put up. If we have another year of stagnation maybe parting ways is the right way. However if there is improvement (both in the market and on the pitch) I would happily give him another contract (whether we won a trophy or not). I want to see promise going forward. I don't want to hear promises. If we take the tactical maturity of last season and add a few quality players and build this season I would be happier than anyone else.
The only thing I would say in reply, is that I don't think the board or Wenger saw that the "the financial model of survival was failing". I think if you look back at clubs building stadiums, Sunderland, Bolton etc., some of them actually got relegated while they paid off their stadium costs. Arsenal finished in the top 4 every year and were a bit unlucky not to pick up a cup or two. They haven't lost a whole lot of support and some figures say that we have picked up a few fans. We are now in a position to spend big (apparently). I don't think that saying the management "didn't give a rats ass" is quite correct, but I do think that they (Wenger and the Board) think that they did well over this period given their circumstances. I obviously, sort of kind of, agree with them, but I do understand people who think that they should have been able to build a stadium, create a youth program, buy players and win the league. I'm not an expert on running a football club, so I can't say whether that is a realistic expectation or not.
you actually believe we are a couple of signings away from winning the premier league ? with the money that the chavs and city are chucking at it ? and with Wengers form over the last 8 years in all competitions . You believe he is still a winner ?
Why not? Our form near the end of the season was championship winning form and in most of the games we messed up we either made silly mistakes ir were just that extra bit of quality away from winning
There's nothing wrong with a positive outlook. However I think you make a good point - Arsenal will forever struggle to compete with those to whom money is no object/less of an object (United). When you realise this, then it makes you appreciate Wenger more for at least maintaining a 'best of the rest' record at Arsenal. Complaining that he hasn't pulled off miracles every year seems unfair.
I don't think 1 trophy in 8 years would have been a miracle, and no-one is asking for miracles "every year" either. Most fans don't even require a miracle (or a trophy). Some progress would be a start, or maybe just a show of ambition (like signing a big name).
Some here just look at the positives. One could say that Spurs' form (before they bottled it) was "championship winning form" as well. Having championship winning form for 10 games means absolutely **** all.
How can the team progress in the league when they can't afford to progress at the same rate at the teams above them? I think the cup form is a legitimate concern though.
Spot on. I don't expect Arsenal to win any trophies but I do expect us to try. That just hasn't happened.
Of course they try - let's not get silly. The last few years however have seen them go out to inferior teams, usually in the midst of playing five games in 15 days, including UCL matches.
Do we try? Selling your best players and replacing them with inferior players does not seem like something a club trying to win trophies would do. When you describe 4th place as a trophy then it shows just how ambitious the club really is. In essence, it means we celebrate being losers. Losers don't win trophies. And you also don't win trophies by showing them disrespect, over the years we have played weakened teams in domestic cup competitions to focus on CL progression (when we have no chance of winning it) as the monetary rewards are far more generous. The club's 1st objective is to make money by any means possible. Winning trophies comes second.
This is where I start to lose it as well. If anyone is seriously saying that the club aren't trying then they really need to be treated as the lunatic fringe and not given the time of day. The discussion here needs to start somewhere within the realm of sanity and maturity.
I don't see the sales of Cesc, Nasri and Van Persie as showing a lack of ambition. Keeping players against their will - two of whom refused to sign new contracts and would have been valueless by the end of the season - is an insanely risky gamble. I would obviously prefer all three to stay and be happy but they didn't and weren't so they had to be sold. You can't expect to build a team around want-away players after all. To be fair I can see why people get frustrated with 4th place seemingly taking precedence over the FA Cup and (to a much lesser extent I'd hope...) the League Cup, but it doesn't mean the team doesn't try in cup competitions. To be honest though, I doubt many of us value winning the FA Cup more than being part of the UCL. Liverpool have won both cups since Arsenal last won a trophy but would any of us trade places? Do Liverpool command more prestige? Have they gained a 'winning mentality' because of it? I'd wager that the answer to all three of these is 'no'. As for the money business, we can all agree that Arsenal will never have the resources of City and Chelsea, and that United have been in a stronger financial position for a long time. It then becomes a trade-off - make decisions that'll allow the club to be more comfortable financially in the future, thus attempting to bridge the gap, or not bother and take risks for short-term glory and hope for the best that it'll pay off later. The former doesn't seem sporting but the latter is extremely high risk (and has spelled doom for many clubs in the past). It has to be accepted that money plays a huge role in everything in football. To paraphrase Ice-T, don't hate the player, hate what the game has become.
correct , getting a cup "upset " by Blackburn Rovers is one thing . getting another cup " upset " by Bradford City is taking the fucking pi$$. that will take some glossing over but some seem to have managed it nicely .....
Money isn't everything and you know that. Besides, we're asking for ambition and progress, not a bloody miracle.
as many have said , you can keep them on a ball and chain . Wenger had no choice but to let them go. The bigger question is , why do they WANT to go ? . Whos fault is it that a succession of top players have lost all faith in us of winning anything ? Thats the elephant in the room .
Everyone. Manager made some poor decisions (everyone does), they themselves ****ed up and leave for an easier path instead of braving it through with the team, fans don't show enough support and some get fud upnif the vitrol lashed at them, greed, etc...
