What law? If you're talking about Stand Your Ground laws, then they weren't used in this case. Zimmerman claimed that he wasn't in a position to retreat when he fired, so it wasn't relevant.
My problem is, I think if you found an American in a street, you would approach him and if he punched you you would shoot him because he is American and you got punched... You see how ludicrous this sounds? You just throw out stuff because you think that is what happened, and then call a WHOLE NATION RACIST because you have an unfounded opinion. We argue, list points, and what do you do? Post essentially the same thing without addressing anyone else's posts. I've lost any semblance of respect for you after this, and any time you disagree with me, I will automatically assume I'm right.
The Zimmerman call. unbelievable! Even told by the 911 operator NOT to follow him, agrees with operator he'll meet at a certain place in his area and then says get the cops to call him to find his location when they arrive meaning of course he was following the kid. Made several claims Martin was this and that. He's following the guy and starting at him and says the kid is now staring at him!? The guy was told not to follow the kid but he did in fact stalk the kid for no reason other than he had a hoody and was black. He's a lying bastard, he shot this kid cos he probably thought he had a gun, then busted his own ****ing head, Zimmerman is a lying scumbag, he attempted to avoid paying legal fees by transferring all his money from his to his sisters account and got his wife to lie on the stand for which she was found out. http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/trayvon-martin-911-calls-audio/ I hope they get this bastard back in a courtroom and give him life
That's not what it said in the Indy today, but even if you're right that means that if you follow a young man without explanation, he feels threatened and turns on you and punches you to the ground, then you have the right to shoot him without warning? What if martin then had been armed, and shot Zimmerman because he felt "threatened" by his stalking? That's got to be the lesson young black men must take from all this - or all young men with hoods anyway. I don't agree with Sisu's racial and anti-American tones, BUT, this is a modern, mature democratic civilisation. The wagon trains are getting through now and the frontier spirit of Kit Carson and Daniel Boone isn't needed. I think it was Michael Moore who said that there are less gun laws in Canada, but a proportionally far, far less gun crime and shooting per population, so it's a culture thing, not a law thing per se. And when some crank can follow a teenager on a hunch then shoot him without warning because the kid gets agitated, then walk away scot-free because no-one could prove he wasn't 'defending' himself..... well I, as the parent of a teenager, can't help but think that any irrational fear of hooded teenagers is superseded by society's duty of ****ing care to its next generation. And as it happens my daughter is going to Frisco for three weeks next month on a student exchange - she's part Chinese through me: she'd better not go off to buy a packet of sweets in her hoody in the evening.
Race was a factor and there's no is no American thing in this. Zimmerman make some slur that is not quite clear on the 911 call, ****ing ???? Have you listened to it? The 911 operator asks Zimmerman is he black or Hispanic, didn't even ask if he was white and you say nothing racial in this There seems to be so many in the US that appear to be certain this was racial. White and black people. Make reference to them when you want to comment that you don't think it's racial EDIT: and you can say your piece without constantly referring to me as well
IF race was a factor then so was education, mental capacity, etc. etc. You really are getting very myopic in what has become a rant.
It's your thread Sis, that's all. I've been careful NOT to have a go at you, though I instinctively disagree that this is primarily a racial issue. A ****ing disgrace, and yet another example of why American culture and societal values mean that they're the last people to trust with guns, but I disagree with trite comparison to the lady who was found guilty of using her gun because, as you say, she was black. Nothing personal feller, though your article is worthy in that it is right, even if your not American, to be alarmed at the overtones of this case.
In order to use a Stand Your Ground defence you have to present it to the judge before the trial starts. Zimmerman turned down that opportunity: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...g-stand-your-ground-hearing-before-trial?lite It's one of the many things in this trial that have been misreported. No, it means that in this case the jury believed Zimmerman's account and that they felt he was in imminent danger of being seriously hurt. A witness placed Martin sitting on top of him repeatedly hitting him and the forensic pathologist said that his wounds were consistent with that. The pathologist also that the ballistic evidence was consistent with Zimmerman's account, placing Martin above him when the shot was fired. As I've already pointed out, it wasn't a 911 operator. It was the non-emergency number. The dispatcher asks: "And this guy, is he white, black or Hispanic?" Why would the dispatcher's question make this a racial case, anyway? He says, "****ing punks".
A witness placed Martin sitting on top of him repeatedly hitting him and the forensic pathologist said that his wounds were consistent with that. The pathologist also that the ballistic evidence was consistent with Zimmerman's account, placing Martin above him when the shot was fired. No argument, but he got himself into that situation by following and harassing an innocent citizen. was martin armed? Did the witness see he had a gun? No, and as such you have no ****ing right to shoot someone who, it could just as be easily argued, were defending themselves WITHOUT lethal force. In any civilised country the reaction would be deemed disproportionate and highlights again the dangers of arming citizens and getting them to believe that they're quasi policemen.
The rentacop was told by the the dispatcher to stop following the kid when he rang 911 so I cant see how this whole incident was not his fault. Its pretty shocking he got off and I would hazard a guess that the guy has money or knows people high up, he does have a quite Jewish sounding name.
Can we just stop this now? Bad enough that some here keep mixing racial issues with gun and other issues gratuitously but now to try and drag in some anti-Semitic element is just getting too silly!!! Sad.
Fair enough Donga but tell me this, what do you do if this seemingly strange guy follows you, you then move away as Martin did and the guy follows you again and tries to apprehend you? I would have beat the **** out of Zimmerman myself. Martin didn't come running up the street and just attack him, Zimmerman as is obviously proved sought a confrontation and got it, he scared the teenager who obviously felt threatened to attack a grown man who was following him, where is Martin's defence of in fear for his life as Zimmerman was allowed use in HIS defence, no, the trial ended up as a trial of Martin's character, "troubled black kid" a very racial stereotype which got Zimmerman off. All white jury to enure the verdict as you know, the defence can exclude jurors based on this or that as more than the number are called and whittled down to the final number, I would like to know how many black people were excluded from sitting on the jury, I don't know if any where but it would be "enlightening" to see if the defence did have black people excluded and also any that would seem the type to sympathise with Martin having kids of their own just like him. Manslaughter should have been the minimum verdict possible here, not "not guilty", he took a life in a situation he caused by being an overactive nosey busybody hassling and stalking a teenager for no reason
The only reported black person that was excluded from the jury during selection was by the prosecution, because they admitted watching Fox News and therefore could be assumed to be conservative & hence pro gun. Seems the prosecution found that to be more of a risk than the colour of jurors skins...... But you keep making it up as you go along mate. Or as people have repeatedly requested you could go look up the actual transcripts of the entire trial. Not as sensationalist as complete lies I know but... C'mon, twist it. Oh I know it was a Zionist, Hispanic white conspiracy that included the DA. Goes all the way to the top in Israel, ..... Anyone else seeing more examples of racism from the storytellers than anyone directly involved in the case?
I've given up trying to debate with him. He just says the same thing over and over again, without actually reading anyone's posts. He says it's only about race, yet he calls the majority of Americans racist. It has more to do with his ignorance than anything else.
Yeah I'm done with this thread too. I just really dislike the tactic of high volume repetition of ones interpretation based on own world view or worse someone else's in the hope that if its repeated often enough it becomes fact because its all anyone can read. I'm also disappointed at how sheep like people I thought of as intelligent actually are. And I'm including a good few of my friends over this topic, the distinct lack of questioning sources and treating the yahoo/msn page or a couple of left or right leaning papers with the obvious wariness they deserve. If it sounds and is presented like opinion without showing sources, evidence and statistics then that's all it is and if its published there's a pre-meditated agenda to consider also. Except everyone is regurgitating it on face value... It's a tactic used by most of what you can call press now. It is also a reminder as to why trials should always be based on cold dispassionate application of the law, even the bad Laws. Otherwise it's trial by the mob who hang people on assumptions and gut feelings where they've filled in the gaps in evidence with conjecture and their own biased objectives rather than say "this is not enough evidence no matter what we believe to prosecute a person of a crime" Ironically the hysteria created by misrepresenting the facts and processes that went on in this trial will make every gun owner in Florida feel vindicated they own a gun. They'll get the perception through the media that their community is abandoning the law & due process when it suits them. That not guilty means not yet guilty until we figure out how to make him so. Mark my words the NRA will feed off this paranoia and increase the siege mentality being fostered here. All because some opportunists are blurring the lines between very distinct topics. Ah well, said my piece...
It is also a reminder as to why trials should always be based on cold dispassionate application of the law, even the bad Laws. Otherwise it's trial by the mob who hang people on assumptions and gut feelings where they've filled in the gaps in evidence with conjecture and their own biased objectives rather than say "this is not enough evidence no matter what we believe to prosecute a person of a crime" " This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake! " Thomas More from A Man For All Seasons
