Beefy's Corner - The Off-Topic Chat Thread

"Michael Vick got jail for the dogfighting case, yet Zimmerman walks free for killing a kid" seems to be a popular line on Twitter right now.

 

As for that matter is Aaron Hernandez hiring Zimmerman's lawyer...

 

He followed a 17 year old kid because said kid was black and wearing a hoodie, which made him scary. The police told him not to follow; he did anyway. At some point, this seems to have resulted in a fight, from which Zimmerman had some injuries...bruises and a couple cuts. He thus pulled out his gun and shot the kid, and then claimed that it was justifiable homicide under Florida's moronic Stand Your Ground law.

Witnesses conflicted on what they saw, so it was essentially Zimmerman's word, and the jury opted to overlook the whole "unnecessarily following a kid, leading to a conflict" bit and accepted his testimony that this kid (who was talking to someone on his phone, scared that he was being followed) suddenly turned into a ninja, attacking him out of nowhere, and leaving him with no option but to shoot the kid.

 

How can shooting an unarmed kid be self defense? Surely he's not in a sufficient amount of danger to be able to use a gun.

 

Well, it's all about whether he had a reasonable belief of an unlawful threat, and because he was a moron, he probably thought that Trayvon was carrying a knife or something. I don't know the ins and outs of the case, or the US law, well enough to explain it, but he must have managed to argue that when this kid started attacking him (allegedly, that's his word and a couple of witnesses but as Schad says, they conflict) he believed he was in greater danger.

 

Ah, but this is 'Murica we're talking about, and they have stand-your-ground laws. Do you have a good-faith belief that someone is going to cause you serious bodily harm? You can kill them!

 

Wow, you don't even have to attempt to retreat, and it applies anywhere! Gun nuts must love Florida.

 

****ing guns. (And racist idiots like Zimmerman too, I'm not just blaming guns, but still **** guns)

 

But freedom!

 

Here's a fun one. An idiot was stealing car radios, and made the mistake of stealing the radio of one Greyston Garcia, who saw it, chased the guy down, stabbed him death, took the radios, and then proceeded to sell them. Charges were dropped under Florida's Stand Your Ground law, despite the fact that the person killed was fleeing, had no weapon, and generally did not appear to be someone against whom one needed to stand ground. Stealing radios is bad; it probably should not qualify for summary daylight execution, though.

 

How?! I mean, come on, there's got to be some sort of test of proportion there. Zimmerman clearly thought he was defending himself, rightly or wrongly etc let's not get into that, but that just seems like an act of murderous revenge. Is the Florida Stand Your Ground law really that stupid?

 

It's open-ended enough that police departments and judges don't seem to know what to do with some of those cases. Demonstrate that you thought that you were in danger -- not that you were in danger, even, that you thought that you were -- and you have a shot. Being white helps, though isn't essential; having the victim be A Bad Person (so, black, or a criminal as above) helps, but may not be essential.

Now, there have been unsuccessful attempts to invoke the law. A guy got in an argument with a neighbour, and then videotaped him going back over to the guy's house, telling the camera "I'm so scared, I'm in danger, they're threatening me" over and over, and then shot the neighbour dead. That didn't work out to the tune of a 40 year sentence, nor did the guy who picked an argument with a black kid in a car over that car's stereo volume and then shot him dead; he has been indicted for second-degree murder, and while he hasn't had his trial yet, he isn't expected to walk.

But even there, you have a problem. One guy got convicted, but he probably doesn't go through with that farce and killing if not for a belief that he'd be acquitted under this law. Thus, a law designed supposedly to give people being robbed/beaten the ability to fight back is instead giving morons the impression that they can murder people with impunity, if they claim that they were scared after.

 

That is ridiculously stupid. All of it, it's just really, really stupid. How have they not repealed this law yet, when it's clearly not just horrendously inefficient, but gives rise to people deliberately attempting to take advantage of its stupidity? I mean, everywhere's got their share of crappy laws, but this is something else.

 

God damn it, America.

 

Because, for a large part of America, what matters is not that your laws make any sense, or have the intended effect, but that they are TOUGH. Various states have passed laws allowing guns in bars, guns at work, etc., and they're also big fans of mandatory sentences for various crimes, because those are TOUGH things to do. Oh, and the death penalty; hamstringing the appeals process and declining all requests for clemency is very TOUGH, even if it ends with innocent people being executed.

It's government by cartoonish machismo.

 

It's embarrassing how a nation with such potential for greatness throws it away with **** like this. Pull it together, America. I'd make a comment about the NSA stuff, but England's not really any better there.

 

Your country does seem to have a slightly better response to fear of the unknown, Daily Mail headlines excluded.

 

Here is an article I have just found which is a part of the problem here in the UK with English football. I started reading the article, and then realise that I used to play with this lad at Bognor Regis. A top 16 in the world qualifies coach and not a chance of a job here in England.

 

Self defence is pretty wide-ranging, even in the UK. I know a guy who's a personal trainer and a bit of a body builder. Quite short but arms as thick as most people's legs. He was out with a big group of mates in London. For whatever reason there's an American with them. They'd all had a few drinks and as they got off the tube at Holloway Road, one of the guys in the group slapped this American guy on the arse and jokingly pretended to flirt with him. The American, who I think was from Texas, got VERY upset about this and there was a little bit of a physical confrontation on the platform. My mate, trying to calm things down, steps in and tries to separate them. The American pulls out a knife and starts stabbing and slashing at him then runs off. The guy I know was cut up quite badly, had his intestines bulging out through his stomach, had to be airlifted to a specialist hospital and had to go through months of physical and emotional therapy.

The American was caught and the case got to court. His explanation was pretty much "I'm an American so carrying a weapon is second nature to me. I felt threatened by the big group of people confronting me so I used my weapon." He was found not guilty of all charges and walked free. The police had been so confident of a conviction on the more serious charges they hadn't bothered to charge him with possession of a bladed article so he didn't even get done for that.

 

So a guy can arm himself, follow young men, stalk and scare them but as soon as there is any reaction, pull the gun and shoot him dead.
I'd love to work for Discover American, "Hello World, Just stay away" would be the new motto.

Ooops. posted before I saw the post above, Looks like their Motto should be "Hello World, Here`s a Yankee" (as in Here`s Johnny)