Not defending them at all for one moment, but as someone who has become a father for the first time in the past year let me tell you it is a very, very expensive business nowadays so this notion that people are simply "popping out offspring" as a tactic so they can claim more money to spend on booze and ***s doesn't make a great deal of sense to me. There are definitely wrongs at the bottom end of the system as this cleverly constructed documentary highlights, absolutely, but I can assure you there are also plenty of wrongs at the other end in terms of tax evasion etc that cost this country far, far more in revenue And forgive me for being a pedant, but the cost of an average Police Constable once pension and N.I. contributions are taken into account is approximately 51k, so you wouldn't get a couple of coppers for your 50k, even if that truly is how much those people cost to support.
OK, if I can i will put my opinion on everything that has happened, hopefully in an objective manner! Firstly the thread, Totally agree what Dave has said that Myself and JWM would have started a thread about it if the shoe was on the other foot, but i believe that we would have drawn the line at gloating at genocide. Totally tasteless and i don't blame JWM for going mental. Secondly the program, Christ i would like to give some people a shake, the bloke that needed a job of 18k I like GM felt some sympathy and truely believe he is trying to get a job and that is why the benefit system is in place. The other 3, well what can i say! these are why normal Tax payers are up in arms about the benefits system, the young guy's family are not help him in the slightest by the handouts, because he will never learn to stand on his own to feet. The woman with all the pets, she wasn't really looking for a job, I'm sure everybody could see that! And as for the bloke who has worked 4 weeks in 22 years! I'm sorry but he really needs a kick up the backside and told to stop bleeding the country dry! My whole take on the system, I find it disgusting that somebody can get more money for not working than somebody who is prepared to put in the hard graft. And Meastro, Good luck fella in your search, good guys like you won't be out of work for to long.
Regardless of the specific number of public sector employees those specific individuals benefits could support the point I was trying to make is that there is an opportunity cost to having people on benefits. As a nation we only have so much cash to spend - we can spend it on the welfare system OR the NHS OR the police OR reduce taxes to give but three alternates. I merely highlighted the choices we have as a society. I too have the joys of a recent introduction to fatherhood and sympathise with you on the cost of raising a nipper. Eyewatering if my experience is anything to go by but my wife and I decided to have a child and took that decision in the knowledge that we may have to make sacrifices elsewhere to pay for it rather than thought we wanted a child and assumed that it was our right to have other people pay for us to raise her. I know it is a basic right to have a child but it really irritates me when some people on benefits have child after child in the knowledge that they cannot afford to bring them up but the odds are that they will get a bigger house and income once the blameless child arrives. I wouldn't bring a pet into my household I couldn't afford let alone a child. Sadly I don't have a solution and I am not proposing mass sterilisation or to go back to Dickensian times and have some form of Malthusian check or workhouses but there must be something that can be done. I would have no objection to some benefits being paid in food stamps to ensure that at least some money has to be spent on food rather than ***s and booze and pet food. I genuinely don't think that people on benefits should be able to afford luxuries such as Sky tv or holidays when people who pay their taxes to support them cannot afford them. I know that there are many, many genuine cases but there are also many who frankly take the proverbial out of all of the rest of us. Maybe some form of public works programmme for anyone in long term unemployment forcing them to work so many hours a day or days a week helping others less fortunate or clearing up litter, cleaning the beaches, building walls, digging ditches or just getting into the habit of getting up in the morning and clocking in and out of the job centre to get some structure to their day. In the real world I think that we all have to accept that the price for helping those in genuine need is that there will be others who abuse the system and there is not a lot we can do to change this. I accept that a lot of poverty is driven by low aspirations from generation to generation and poor education and that these issues can be addressed and there are people who are simply too infirm to work who a humane society will help.
To be honest I think the only way to sort it out is bring out some sort of ration book system, like you get a £50 voucher for groceries at a supermarket, another voucher for something else, etc etc until then you get a little amount of money which can be spent on whatever you want. don't know whether that would work or not.
One last point from me, its easy to blame the system as it is open to abuse. However I was brought up in such a way that the thought of claiming long term is abhorent (for all but those truely unable to work). There are whole pockets of society that one generation to the next will fall in to the benefits trap and someone had to start that cycle. Its the lazy parents that breed the generation on generation of laziness. So yes I am critical of the system, I am very critical of those who chose it as a nice cushy lifestyle (I used to live in a very nice street in a very nice area, and there was some social housing at the bottom of the street, said residents were messy, load, obnioxious and frequently drunk. Not all are but even one lot is too many!) But more than anything I am greatful to have great parents who weren't with out fault but gave me what i think is a pretty good moral compass and a great up bringing. Had I been born to that horrible chav girl from 1p5wich I hate to think where I might be now! Bah!
Exactly, these vouchers if for child support should be useable only in supporting the child. You would soon no doubt get a roaring trade in vouchers for booze and ***s going by some enterprising so n so's. Bah!
GM, I'd think simply putting a name on the coupons should hopefully stop that. But I agree with several of the suggestions. I know very, very little about the system, but I wouldn't think it would be impossible to have people earn their benefits by doing community work several days a week, and apply for jobs on the others. It would also create more full time jobs as someone would have to organise each area
I haven't read the whole thread but I can guess at whats being debated. I have a bucketful of "issues" the worst of which is Fibromyalgia, it's in the ME family of "illnesses", there's no cure, no treatment, hope of "beating" it. I have good times and I have bad times. At the moment I am having a very bad time, i'm sitting here at work almost in tears i'm in so much pain. Try to imagine what it's like when you do a really good workout and the next day all your muscles feel pulled? Well that's how I feel on a good day at the moment instead of felling that way I feel like every muscle in my body has taken a beating and i'm not being a wuss, i've had migraines since the age of 5 so I know pain inside out but this just simply HURTS. I need a walking stick to get around, if I do a flight of stairs (live in a bungalow luckily) I have to stop at the top as i'm out of breath. I recently did a brisk jog for a train and nearly passed out afterwards. This will be TMI for some but even wiping my bum is really hard due to the pain in my joints and muscles I go to work, i've had 1 day off in the past 12 months. My job is mostly data related so luckily means sitting in front of my desk. I know there are people out there who genuinely cannot work and I can see a day coming where I can no longer even sit in my chair here but everyone has a duty to TRY! I'm 38 this year and I am absolutely gutted this is happening to me but whilst I can I will work and hopefully if I ever do reach the point where I can't work then there will be something there to help me and I hope that those around me won't judge me harshly for claiming what I might need
Rich44 is the type of person the benefits system is here for, somebody who is hardworking but when the the need is there that they are looked after in a way that they don't see a drop in the standard of living. Not some Lardy who spends most of her day on Ebay and watching re-runs of TOWIE on her 50in plasma tv. Hope you have more better days than worse Richh44.
Thanks guys, that means a lot. Fingers crossed the new tablets help and GP is off scratching his brain to see if he can refer me somewhere trouble is FM has no obvious cause so it's all very much bleeding edge stuff there are some drugs that the side effect "helps" like Pregabalin but there isn't anything specifically for the illness unfortunately. Hopefully I can get some stronger painkillers (500/30mg co-codamol don't touch it)
Only pulling your leg bor, I love to see it, I've not lived in Norfolk for over 60 years now, anything that reminds me is ok by me!
From that story it seems like you are a real inspiration Rich. I can't imagine what it would be like to be in your position but you just get on with it. I hope things are better for you soon.
Rich, You really need to be the type of person to go around and speak to some of the less worthy benefit claimants and talk about what you have been through, yet you still manage to get out there and work. Hopefully that would make some of them see sense.
