http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/138171-analysis-fixture-pattern-benefits-lfc This thread gives us hope perhaps but more than that it aligns with the more important aspect of the europa league, pathetic prize money and tv rights. Last season we saw spurs flounder about while arsenal and chelsea were awful, they just failed to reach the 4th spot on the last day, Newcastle nearly got relegated. Contrast this with The top 4 sides who all flopped in the CL and we find a very interesting story. In short while chelsea managed to "buck the trend" they also lost the FA cup run and didn't do half as well as hoped in the league even though their squad is built for CL success.... Can it really be that playing CL (especially against weak teams in the groups) is easy when you have a Tuesday or Wednesday game and time to recover compared to a trip to the back of beyond on a thursday and having a 3pm sunday kick off in the league? Is that one or two day recovery period really setting teams back? I have to say I agree somewhat with it. Kenny saw a pick up in form after the europa exit, now we see rodgers get it.... yet no europa football? will it really benefit us in our intensity? will the europa distract the assembling spurs squad enough for us to get a march on them? Will the CL and arsenal's perennial February flop allow us to get up with them? OR are we just not good enough anyway and this doesn't matter?
It's a different point of view, we'll see I suppose. If we have a better league campaign then you wont get many complaining about not playing in this comp.
If we can't cope with the extra games in EL, then how are we going to cope with the extra games of the CL? A lot of people are happy that we're not in the EL, and I don't agree with this. European football is a great experience for anyone and is an attraction to prospective signings.
Well I am looking at the reasonable stats about goals conceded in particular. We don't drill in to see the difficulty of these games but if we are dropping by something like 30% the goals we let in... due in part to the ability to run about with more intensity than that is one MAJOR source of goals we should be not conceding. In my opinion letting in soft goals is that puts us 7th, nothing about not scoring enough... for me if you defend well and are hard to beat then goals come. the stats say < a goal a game after elimination. compared to 1.2 or more goals per game otherwise. That's a big swing. the other point i'd make is the europa league is very second class. City actually played their home games when they won the league on the wednesday didn't they? that extra day helped them. If the europa was even a 5pm kick off tournament on tuesday/wednesday as a warm up match for the CL then it'd make more sense. you could sell it to sky and get more money! ok ok the crowds would be a disaster and i can see that but hey.... it seems the thursday to sunday thing really hurts.
Totally agree European football should be our minimum aim every season. If any "poor" footballer can't cope with two games in a week he shouldn't be at a top level club and certainly shouldn't be demanding tens of thousands of pounds A WEEK. You ask any of the travelling fans of any of these clubs if they'd rather be in or out of Europe then the majority would rather be in the Europy than in nothing at all. Ask the young players who never get a league game if the experience of a trip to Italy, Spain or even Russia with the first team is great experience. If the Prem teams who competed in the Europy last year want to use it as an excuse for poor league form then that's up to them but IMO each of those clubs had far bigger issues. We had a new manager and threadbare squad and yet it was the early Euro games which brought about the few highlights of our early season games (and gave the new players/youngsters more game time together). Newcastle had a poor league runbecause they brought in a load of **** and have Pardew as manager, Spurs failed to buy in the position they most needed to and yet still coped well enough, arsenal performed better once out of Europe but weren't playing Thursday nights anyway (thus suggesting European football is the distraction not just EL games) and Chelsea are impossible to take anything from due to the fact they're a basket case of a club but with a big enough squad (and decent manager) you can cope with a number of competitions. Granted I can see the argument that a season out may help us next year but what then? What if we qualify for Europe next year then find league form drops straight back again because our players can't cope with having to do a whole two days work in a week? If they aren't fit enough then they aren't good enough, simple really. Oh and for the record I don't see much difference between playing Thursday and Sunday rather than Wednesday and Saturday either
Absolute tosh. IMO, European football is used as an excuse! Fair enough, it will effect the manager and coaching staff since they still have to do preparation and travel just as they would for other games but the main players don't. Gerrard, Suarez and co didn't travel to all the away games, nor did they take part in all the home games. The youngsters and reserves were played until it came to a bigger game!
yet the stats are remarkably interesting. I agree with you guys and i've looked at sides like spurs and everton and others when they qualify and thought... next year they'll be overwhelmed. however in reality when we were in the CL we used up gerrard and torres very quickly and they just ended up injured all the time. Certain positions like CBs can cop with the two games but you have to have the squad for it, again the early rounds are easy... we could play kids so the argument is moot but those stats are something i'd like to dig into more. Less intesity to the games and thus more goals conceded and less scored on the next game. We could argue the top 4 are so far in fornt o f the other clubs that the relative difference in performance is masked, a side in the europa is closer in level to a side like fulham or stoke and so the drop off in intensity 2 days after shows up in a crap away day? who knows but what i do know is i expect WAY more than a second string in the carling cup and FA cup this year and 7th is not acceptable. I think our minimum performance should be 6th and a cup run. thats realsitic but 5th or 4th is asking a lot and to asay win a cup to any side is not really a minimum requirement.
can you explain the stats in goals scored and conceeded then? one could argue for instance that both years picked there were ONLY league matches left so that was why both years we saw a big pick up.... i think that would be better than just saying tosh! there must be some explanation for a huge swing in goals conceded in two separate seasons. If LFC delivered the goals scored and conceeded per game that we did after elimination for a FULL season we'd be very close to the top. You are right about the main players early on of course....
I suppose the idea is to have a season where we bed in a squad without playing in Europe then add to it and go back into Europe the following season with a stronger squad capable of coping with the additional games whether it is Europa or CL. That's what I think the idea is but at the end of the day the club need to tell us fans why we've turned down European footy, if the above is the reason then fair enough but lets hope we bloody qualify next season.
We should be qualifying for Europe as a minimum. The EL got used primarily as a route to give squad players a run out and a chance to play in competitive matches and show the boss what they can do. It also acts as a draw (Club to agent - "We have European Football, you know...") to better signings. As its been pointed out, if we can't cope with EL, what chance have we with the higher standard of CL. Presumably the club would give a higher priority to CL than EL, and consequently the better calibre of player would be selected for CL. The knock on would be a lower calibre of player getting PL game time while we rest some higher calibre players after a CL fixture. So, in my humble opinion, I think we would have been better off in EL than not, in terms of recruitment and development. I don't see CL as an easier prospect, indeed, I see it as more challenging in terms of managing resources at the high end.
Well we will see how many people would rather have no European football than play in EL next year when the 2015 winners get a CL spot. The game I enjoyed most all season was Zenit second leg - that was ****ing brilliant and I was GUTTED when we went out.
I believe the winners of the EL (from this season) will now be given entry to the CL qualifiers? Big incentive for the EL participants.
Me too, and you could see the reaction from a player like Suarez who was so pumped when he scored that second goal. For such a top class player who should be playing on bigger stages, the EL is certainly not beneath him nor should it be for any other professional.
This is a good point. 2015 will be a change i hope for the competition. I think on the turning down fair play... i think the qualifiers would just disrupt us totally in preseason, not only that but you have to play all levels right to the group stage. all in all I am ok with that one. I would prefer we win a cup to qualify than that route. I'd also point to the spuds again and just comment about Bale..... On 4 April 2013, Bale got injured in the first leg of the Europa League quarter final against Basel. they were luck in the run they had at that point cos all they had for the 3 weeks he was out was one league game. against everton and that was a 2-2- draw... just imagine a 3 week injury to bale at another time? who about missing 5 league games!!! itd swing their season. Not a big point perhaps but you get the point? LFc have only one or two really top players so ok the first rounds are kids but i'm sure everyone would curse our luck if suarez borke a leg player europa and missed half a season... just like we curse him biting . I totally agree its better to be in europe but it'd be better to be in and capable of playing it that floating along 6-7th all the time. If we did get 4th this seaosn as a result we would i also agree need to spend hugely to be able to compete in the CL and get 4th again with it.
Another point is that Rodgers has limited experience in Europe. He needs to learn how to adapt to the extra fixtures by rotating his squad and using his resources wisely.
Whilst the stats can be read as "EL harms league form" they can equally (IiMO) be read as "squad simply isn't anywhere near good enough". What we need is a bigger squad of higher quality, fitter players. In order to keep a bigger squad happy we need more games not less. We also need more income not less. Granted the Europey income isn't great it's better than nothing and the more coverage we get the better for sponsorship etc. Whilst United, City and Chelsea can maintain good runs in a number of competitions and still keep up league form are we as LFC fans suggesting a handful of midweek games is reason enough for piss poor league positions? One other thing for you lads to consider is the fans. I know a ruck of people who can't afford (or can't get tickets) to take their kids to many league games or CL games. The Europy offers a chance for many to get to Anfield where they wouldn't often get to go otherwise.
In the early stages of Europa league in the past, Liverpool always played the youth and some first team players. To me, being in the Europa league is opportunities for the youth and squad players to show us what they can do.
I can see the sense in that argument but only IF we do push on for a CL spot. Are we good enough for that? Does it mean if we don't get top four this season we've had a bad year? The problem is at the moment we're a fair way off top four and a million miles off the top of the league. The top 3 squads (chavs, manks and citeh) have shown they can cope on more than one front, Arsenal do seem to suffer when they go further in the CL but you can't argue with Wengers record at knowing how to get CL footy. Spurs may suffer from a long run in the EL but they have some decent youngsters who will be getting European experience if nothing else. Obviously I hope it will prove advantageous to us for the coming season but I'm not so sure it makes a massive difference in terms of league points. I am pretty certain however that if we were out of Europe again the following season it would mean a) we've underperformed massively and b) our squad development, especially with the younger players will be falling further and further behind those above us.
it is a very good point that EL is cheap to get to and tickets early on are easy to get... no question. I think i made the point on squad a slightly different way earlier. in that in challenging on all fronts the top 4's drop in performance is less obvious cos they get a "regulation" 1-0 win or something while maybe someone in the 6-7th region that 1-0 ends up a 0-0 or a 1-1 or something and we drop points. I just think the stats showing the intensity of sprints being less and the goals conceded and scored being more as interesting. Is fitter not simply better recovery over the period of time? That said quality is quality and if lfc could make 3 changes and rest players and still perform we would, that's why i said if we get to 4th ever we need serious investment then to keep it and play CL. spurs it must be said have not got back in since they got there, and ok Chelsea robbed them once... but still....
I'd like to think that we could see a time when 3/4 clubs who fight over 4th are bouncing around and whomever gets it doesn't get it the next time round... i would not like to think arsneal can sustain forever a ****e team and 4th while we are locked out OR that spurs simply replace them as top 4 also locking us out. I also agree totally that if we don't improve this season it will be disastrous, we just missed due to the fa cup runs of ****es like milwall and with moyes to utd the minimum we expect is 6th which should be a spot in EL. our european co-efficient as discuss earlier in the summer will drop off a cliff soon so we if ever i nthe CL will find ourselves 4th seeds... I think Uefa need to improve this cup to make it attractive but the issue is tv money, its set up to give failures in the cl all the cash and frankly nobody is interested in it. fix that and then the number of rounds can drop back and make it more playable.
