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My Thoughts on Tyres, the Teams, and Todt

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by TomTom94, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. TomTom94

    TomTom94 Well-Known Member

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    Going into the British Grand Prix it was hard to expect Pirelli's PR to get any worse, coming off the back of criticisms of dreadful tyre degradation restricting the racing; drivers being told from lap 3 in Monaco to conserve their tyres; and a series of high-profile delaminations which the manufacturer has blamed on cuts in the tyres. Meanwhile, Pirelli have found their efforts to introduce changes to the tyres thwarted on both sides; the FIA stating that according to their rules, changes can only be made on safety grounds (not performance), while certain teams (Ferrari, Lotus, and Force India) have criticised Pirelli for caving into criticism from the teams who dislike the tyres more, such as Red Bull, and perceiving that such teams might gain an unacceptable advantage (or, perhaps more critically, that their own performance might be compromised). Then there was the Mercedes debacle: did Mercedes gain an unfair advantage by testing Pirelli's rubber (probably); were Ferrari also complicit (yes, but they acted within the rules); was the punishment lenient (yes). Of course, a string of high-profile delaminations - three taking place within just a few laps of one another - have left Paul Newbery with even more work to do when he wakes up tomorrow morning.

    One interesting fact to note is that it was one of the teams complaining most about potential changes to the tyres - Ferrari - who suffered one such blowout; the perenially unlucky Felipe Massa spinning out from a strong start after his left rear let go. The five such blow-outs - all on the same tyre - have raised questions about the kerb at turn 4 (questions which should be asked and sorted) but it is clear that the fundamental issue is the tyres provided by Pirelli. A new bonding process was introduced this weekend but has potentially had the opposite effect - as was pointed out by Ben Edwards and David Coulthard on the BBC commentary team, today's delaminations were actually more dramatic, and more dangerous, than those that had occurred before. The sole tyre supplier in F1 is currently producing a shoddy and potentially dangerous product. Perhaps we need another US 2005 to convince someone that something needs to be done.

    The crux of the matter is though that Pirelli do not need convincing to change the tyres. They have changed their tyre allocations since Bahrain to be far more conservative (today's tyres were the two hardest compounds, not that this is any more reassuring); they have tried at least two attempts - in the face of resistance - to stop these delaminations, but have been prevented from testing them due to lack of opportunities with a 2013 car. Perhaps they are not doing enough to change, and they did place themselves in this position by providing such tyres. This I will not disagree with. Pirelli argue that people who need to be convinced are the people in charge of the rules, the FIA, who continue to claim that the teams must deal with these tyres and attempt to restrict Pirelli's changes. This is not helped by the fact that Pirelli would like the FIA to support them; surely a "tyre test" would not go amiss in order to stop this current debacle. Pirelli's position is, to quote a fellow from another forum, between a rock and a bunch of whining twats. And it is the position of the FIA which I would like to examine.

    Jean Todt's ascendancy to the throne of the FIA Presidency was not without controversy. His position as former team principal of Ferrari lead to accusations, not without merit, of partiality. Surely, it was argued, this is damning proof of the rumoured favouritism given to Ferrari; surely this is the literal embodiment of Ferrari International Assistance. Todt took this on board, but argued that he would act impartially. And yet the recent FIA tribunal saw both Ferrari and Mercedes (led by old friend, Ross Brawn) questioned for breaches of rules: Ferrari were let off scot-free (the justification being that the rule was unclear, but Ferrari had acted within it) and Mercedes essentially the same. The tribunal's justification that Mercedes should be exempted because the rules were unclear left a bitter taste in the mouths of many of the teams - not helped by Mercedes winning the Monaco GP immediately following the test and today's GP with it. It was Todt's former Ferrari team who were especially vocal in pointing out that the rules on testing are clear - no testing a current 2013 car. As an almost direct result of the FIA's fumbling of the matter, the teams are no longer a united front, and Todt's position within the FIA did not help matters.

    His suitability for the leadership challenges presented, too, was questioned. His predecessor, Max Mosley, had become famous for his particular style of leadership; where F1's money man, Bernie Ecclestone, would choose to divide and rule, Mosley would take such a hardline stance that, it is argued, the teams needed to unite in order to defeat him. This was particular the case in the infamous budget cap proposals. As a result, Mosley's position became close to untenable - but at the same time, he was able to use such a "Batman gambit" - gambling on the teams reacting in exactly the manner he intended - in order to force through proposals which were much more reasonable; the Resource Restriction Agreement was one such solution, stemming directly from the budget cap proposals.

    My fear is that Todt is attempting a similar strategy without the political nous which characterised Mosley. His silence on the matters concerning Pirelli has been pretty deafening - leaving Ecclestone to speak almost on his behalf; criticising the teams for not acknowledging F1 as a "spectacle". By refusing to comment on such matters, he is essentially abandoning Pirelli to the wrath of the teams, asking Pirelli and the teams to sort out a compromise. But with the teams not presenting a united front, with many teams willing to take the risks in favour of political victories and potential competitive disadvantages, this is increasingly becoming a volatile situation not only politically but also on the track. Today Sergio Perez and Jean-Eric Vergne both suffered delaminations with another car in hot pursuit; how Alonso avoided Perez's tyre I do not know but if it had indeed struck his helmet there is no telling the damage that could have been done. Remember Felipe Massa at Hungary 2009. The potential for such an event is there.

    In summary the fact that this situation has been allowed to develop is nothing short of disgusting. Gambles are being taken on men's lives. If the teams are prepared to continue sending out drivers on those tyres, if the FIA and the teams continue to hamper Pirelli's efforts to render these tyres safer, and if the leadership from the top continues to simply echo the words of the "money men" and refuses to actually itself lead - then the sport we love risks tragedy once again. Less than a year ago we lost a great man - Sid Watkins - who has done so much for F1 medical safety over the past two decades. Next April will mark the 20th anniversary of the "Black Weekend" which marked last two deaths in Formula 1. It simply cannot be permitted for Roland Ratzenberger and Ayrton Senna's deaths to be in vain. Jean Todt must either step up and lead from the top as his job should be required to do or he should take a leaf out of the book of recently-fired Apprentice candidate Jason Leech and step aside. This has gone too far.

    Comments welcome.
     
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  2. sotonlad

    sotonlad Member

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    Bit long winded but has covered the point, I think the teams need to do another USA to be heard as twatmarsh is doing an awful job. He said he contemplated red flagging the race but why didn't he? I guess maybe both his drivers were doing well and in the top 10. Something massive needs to happen in f1 I watch it as I enjoy racing ( this is not racing anymore).
     
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  3. TomTom94

    TomTom94 Well-Known Member

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    You've got Whiting and Whitmarsh muddled up but I'm glad you got the point that the teams are far too self-centred. Incidentally: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108472
     
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  4. u408379965

    u408379965 Well-Known Member

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    Great article. <ok>

    Todt's tenure certainly hasn't been a success, but the FIA's hands are tied over this. Changing the tyres is a breach of regulation unless they're unsafe, if it went to court the teams blocking the move would call Pirelli as a witness who would say the tyres are in fact safe. The WMSC can change the regulations but they need unanimous agreement to do so. Someone has to do the right thing, either Pirelli have to admit their product is unsafe, or the three teams have to stop putting drivers at risk to gain a competitive edge.

    On this point: Today Sergio Perez and Jean-Eric Vergne both suffered delaminations with another car in hot pursuit; how Alonso avoided Perez's tyre I do not know but if it had indeed struck his helmet there is no telling the damage that could have been done. Remember Felipe Massa at Hungary 2009. The potential for such an event is there.

    If Perez's right rear had failed today it doesn't bear thinking about what would've happened. Alonso's front wing certainly would've been destroyed at 200mph, and if the steel belt had struck his helmet he would've been in real trouble. It was 50-50 between a potentially dangerous situation with the left tyre failing, and a near-certain tragedy if the right tyre had failed. Action must be taken. Spa is in 3 races time, Monza after that, these tyres can't be used there.
     
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  5. Han Shot First

    Han Shot First New Member

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    I don't see the problem. The drivers are talented enough to correct the car once the tyre blows. Plus other tracks don't have such jagged kerbs.
     
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  6. u408379965

    u408379965 Well-Known Member

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    Pirelli are reportedly planning to run another test with Ferrari between the German and Hungarian GPs. The favouritism is sickening. It will be the third time they've run with Ferrari, and apart from their illegal test with Mercedes they've run with no other team (to my knowledge). There has to either be a tyre war or Pirelli have to be dropped, you can't have a sole tyre supplier who don't treat all teams equally. They have too much influence, they're influencing the racing, they're manipulating the results, they're putting drivers' lives at risk, they're contaminating the sport. This is the most contentious season since 94 and almost all of it is down to Pirelli.
     
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  7. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately it was the tyre war that gave us such crap racing in the mid-00's when Bridgestone threw everything at Ferrari to the detriment of every other team they supplied.

    Control tyres are fine, but Pirelli and the teams need to sort this and the testing issues out.
     
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  8. Forza Bianchi

    Forza Bianchi Well-Known Member

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    Alonso was very lucky that he had already started to move over to the right. He was half a car width to the right of Perez when the delamination started. I hate to think what would have happened if Alonso decided to go the left. This is how serious it's getting:


    This morning Spanish journalist Carlos Miquel said that Pirelli had changed the tyres to the kevlar belt without telling anyone. He said that Ferrari were very angry because track temperatures were decent in qualifying and yet Alonso couldn't get the tyres up to temperature. It would explain why Lotus and Ferrari went from being 0.5 off the pace in Spain to being 1.3 off the pace in Silverstone. It would also explain why Mercedes and Red Bull didn't struggle with the tyres unlike previous races. It's also strange to see teams easily doing two stops on the same compounds used Spain where teams were four stopping. Anyway, Miquel also said that Perez's delamination in practice was different to previous ones and the steel belt was nowhere to be seen. Since then we've had four delaminations and Rosberg, Alonso and Vettel also came close to delaminations. Clearly there was something wrong this weekend. Pirelli have already ruled out the new glue, kerbs are the same this year compared to last year (and delaminations weren't all happening in the same place), so maybe they changed from steel to kevlar and it backfired on them? I could be wrong but we've already seen Pirelli breach their contract once this season with the illegal tyre test (and arguably breached it twice by favouring RB and Mercedes with conservative tyre choices), so maybe they were fearing another four stop race and made some changes to the construction.
     
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  9. Forza Bianchi

    Forza Bianchi Well-Known Member

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    please log in to view this image

    please log in to view this image

    please log in to view this image
     
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  10. Han Shot First

    Han Shot First New Member

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    Nobody was hurt, can't we just move on now, and stop slagging off Pirelli for every little thing? F1 wouldn't happen without a tyre supplier, and the way things are going, nobody will want to supply tyres for fear of being blamed for every little thing.

    The only thing Pirelli have done wrong is the Merc test. They were told to make tyres that wear out quickly, they did that.
     
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  11. TomTom94

    TomTom94 Well-Known Member

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    No-one's disagreeing with that aspect (except Ernie, but that's a whole other discussion). We are arguing with the risk of the tyres essentially disintegrating. As has been pointed out above, if Alonso hadn't made his move to the right of Perez he could have received the main belt of the tyre straight to his helmet. Then you wouldn't be saying "no-one was hurt". The current tyres are, in that respect, critically flawed.
     
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  12. Han Shot First

    Han Shot First New Member

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    But he didn't.
     
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  13. TomTom94

    TomTom94 Well-Known Member

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    So what you're saying is that until one of these drivers is injured there's no reason to change the tyres, even when there is a clear and demonstrable risk that one of them might get injured?
     
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  14. Han Shot First

    Han Shot First New Member

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    No point changing anything if nothing bad has happened.
     
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  15. TomTom94

    TomTom94 Well-Known Member

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    I do hope you don't have anyone in your employ because I think they might disagree with that philosophy.
     
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  16. u408379965

    u408379965 Well-Known Member

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    Wow. I hadn't considered that, but looking at Hamilton's failure back there was no big chunk fly off. Perez's the other day there was a huge chunk as if the belt came off whole, but Hamilton's certainly looks like the whole thing disintegrated which it just wouldn't do with a steel belted construction.

    It's an absolute mess. It's inconceivable that Pirelli can continue after this but what can anyone do? The sport has to try to be on good terms with Pirelli for the rest of the season because we need them to sort these tyres out. There's no supplier next season. This just goes from bad to worse. If Pirelli can change construction without telling anyone how can anyone trust them? They could be giving different tyres to different teams.

    On the race being a two stop though, it wasn't really surprising, Silverstone is much lower wear than Spain. Pirelli haven't gone conservative either since they've said all along they're aiming for 2-3 stop races.
     
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  17. Han Shot First

    Han Shot First New Member

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    Too much health and safety
     
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  18. Julius Caesar

    Julius Caesar Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    So by your logic if i set up a bomb on a timer (That's what these delaminations are), there's no point doing anything about it until it goes off? The fact we got lucky isn't an excuse not to prevent it happening in the future. I don't think wanting to stop tyres from disintegrating at 150 miles per hour can really be classified as health and safety gone mad.

    That's coming from someone who likes what Pirelli have done with the sport. Today was a farce.
     
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  19. Forza Bianchi

    Forza Bianchi Well-Known Member

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    The damage to Perez's car. Bloody hell.

    please log in to view this image
     
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  20. u408379965

    u408379965 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing that a bit of gaffer tape won't fix.
     
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