Libertarian â âI would choose to read the telephone directory before "holy scriptures". At least there are real people in thereâ Sorry to disappoint you Vetch, but there are no real people in a telephone directory â its just a list of names Knackered â âBut tolerance doesn't mean I can't criticise, or even make fun of a religion. Why is it so sacrosanct? â If you think that making fun of someones religion is tolerance, then that shows how totally intolerant you are. On the other hand, if you do, donât be surprised when people take the piss out of you when you say you are an atheist. SAFC 83 â â I cannot believe in the 21st century, people are still believing in these pathetic, immature fairytales. It's ridiculous.Ban all religions.â Hmmmm â Facist bully boy? Pagan â âat least the scientific community is trying to understand Life the Universe and everything unlike the religious community who just fall back to old line that it's God will whenever a difficult question is raisedâ A sweeping and general statement. I am sure thereâd be a few sun worshippers who would argue with you! Swanselona â âSo your saying, we all know nothing, so its easier to believe in a fairytale? I can dig it, im converted.â Swansea City v Bradford City in the League Cup Final â thats a f*****g fairtyale â you believed that one though didnât you! Yankee â I wonât cut and paste your full rant, but what I will say is that if you think it will be any different in an atheists utopia you are very much mistaken. In fact it could be a whole lot worse. Whether you like it or not religion has formed part of structured society and its laws for millennium. If you strip society of that, whose rules are you going to follow? What is stopping me taking your head off? As for child molestation, every one despises child molesters and you will find that you are more likely to be molested by a member of your family rather than a parish clergyman/woman. Vetch - "It never ceases to amaze me how seemingly intelligent people can be taken in by such palpable nonsense." I have this "thought" - EVERY DAY. â A very NEGATIVE point. Is there any hope out there? Knackered sorry, but youâve put nothing positive on the table. In fact there is still NOTHING positive on the table from anyone. Why not start an Atheist Society in Swansea to feed the homeless â that will be a start. Knackered - âIf you think that Mormonism is credible and deserves respect then I'm fine with that, though I'd be interested to know how you come to that conclusionâ That is not the point â the point is that if Mormons can believe what they want, as can anyone. You said you were tolerant â show it. Swanselona - Dinosaurs.....aren't they wonderful.....there is my thought, don't see anything about those in the good book. Oh wait, thats right, as has already been mentioned, they were not discovered until after the book was written. So, seeing as god made us all, on day 1 or whatever day it was, why did the good book not mention anything about dinosaurs? Your thoughts welcomeâ Youâve been watching Eddie Izzard again. I am assuming you are referring to the Bible so it depends if you want to take the Bible literally or as a guide. Who do you think wrote the Bible? That will be the starting point to answer your own question, and may help you use it in the right context, if you so wish. Plenty of crap on here lads and guess what â no one is right and no one is wrong. Religous folk cannot prove there is a god, atheists cannot prove there is no god. The top scientists in the world have admitted that so it is beyond the realms of our good old 606 posters to prove otherwise. Go and have a beer instead
Nope, dont believe in fairytales lol, just good hard work getting you there Right, so there are massive creatures roaming around, massive teeth, killing ****e, and not one single mention in the bible, I dont care who the author of the bible was, dinosaurs were big bastards, they would not have been left out if they were living amongst them. Thats like leaving out the American Revolution, in the American history books.
How can somebody disprove something that cannot be proved, as that sounds illogical to me. There is no need for anybody to disprove the existence of a divine being/power (although I'm open to the possibility there might be something out there), as it cannot be proved in the first place surely?
I didn't rant - I responded to your impatience and presented a tiny portion of the poignant, irrational, controlling and in too many cases criminal and violent conduct repeated again and again over the centuries by the supposedly enlightened religious zealots against humanity - sadly even to this day they continue. You would think that after centuries of practice they could figure it out, work out the kinks so to speak, but they don't, they can't, they never will. Religions and their power brokers can't get along, not even between themselves and the carnage that they wreck on people and the persistent insults to humanity is dismissed as so much collateral damage. The fact that religious doctrine has poisoned society and persecuted those that failed to march in-line with theocratic mandate is one of the greatest ******ing forces to the development of humanity over the centuries. What is stopping you from taking my head off is the same thing stopping me from doing it to you - intelligence, rationality, respect, the cognition of right from wrong. I don't need the Roman equivalent of a Marvel comic to tell me how to think, nor how to behave. And it is a Marvel comic, except that the super-hero couldn't fly, just walk on water ... I guess ancients couldn't stretch their minds to a man flying ... other than that its nothing but pulp fiction originating in a historical language. And we don't need a secular utopia - unlike the religious we don't need one, don't believe in one, we're all too realistic and pragmatic - we just need the religious to practice in public, once in a while, the good things they preach, and practice in private the other twisted nonsense. As for child molestation .... apparently not, I have no need to worry, I am not at risk. Ask the good people of the Republic of Ireland, the people in the parishes in and around Boston, and the people going through discovery now in Australia - where they think their greatest risk lies. I don't think a religious organization that grovels at the public trough for tax exemptions should violate secular criminal and civil codes in the country in which they are a guest, systemically obstruct secular criminal and civil justice when called to account and in the process defile the very canons that they claim to hold sacred. Apparently not everyone despises child molesters the way you believe, the religious power-political structure clearly does not for they cravenly protect their own kind while they can get away with it - they place the molester above the molested - a preference that transcends the trust placed in them by their parishioners and the requirements of the law in the country in which they operate.
Ok thats 6,000 years, Now on the 6th day, man was created (i think thats right), so only 66.98 million years, 3 days, 2 hour and 15 minutes longer than some believe the earth has existed
As was your statement. And I personally would rather worship the sun and an invisible non-provable super being. Atheist or scientist simply cannot prove a negative ... Its like trying to prove there are no fairy's at the end of my garden. The onus is on the God fearing community to prove that their invisible friend exists.
IF scientists were to prove god was real, do you reckon the religious followers would be as quick to dismiss that, like they do everything else?
So everyone who has a religion is tarred with the same brush - a zealot, a child molester? As for what is stopping anyone taking some one elses head off - intelligence, rationality, respect, the cognition of right from wrong? Common features in humanity which is left to its own devices? I don't think so. It will be the survival of the fittest.
A classic example of misreading and misunderstanding. I cannot help but notice the recognition of Darwinism at the end .... survival of the fittest ... this is not confined to the physical as you seem to imply but also works on the intellectual and empathic levels, which through evolution has taken us from the swamp to the moon. You seem so despondent on the human condition - how can you possibly manage to get up in the morning.
Yankee - you really believe man has been to the moon? Now theres a fairy story for you!!! You seem quite willing to be sucked in by Yankee scientific propaganda. Pagan - What makes you think I am talking about the Bible or the Koran?
PGF: Hmmmm – Facist bully boy? No need for name calling. Cut it out. I know it wasn't directed at me but it's crass. "don’t be surprised when people take the piss out of you when you say you are an atheist." Nobody has, yet. You've just come back with nonsensical pro-religious arguments like "I was indoctrinated as a child". Oh and Dragon's incredible summer house analogy. Wtf?? "In fact there is still NOTHING positive on the table from anyone." Then you cannot have been reading these posts. Nobody is suggesting religious charities don't do good works. Atheism is a personal belief, not a cult or faction so it's up to the individual to do good deeds or not. If they did organise a charitable group then they'd be a step closer to being a religion themselves - something you criticised earlier. Remember, secular charities considerably outnumber religious ones. "What is stopping me taking your head off?" As YJ says, you don't need a holy book to have a moral compass. Morals have developed in man as part of the evolutionary process. People either have a sense of right or wrong or they don't. That's why child molesters could be religious or atheistic. We're shocked at the senior clergy who've done it because they are the ones who hold themselves up as pillars of righteousness. If you do use the bible as a moral compass try explaining away the rape and murder of villagers by Moses and his tribe or the dreadful abuse of Abraham's son by his own father. Yes, great morals. "Is there any hope out there?" I've already said that religion gives people hope in times of crisis and I'm fine with that. I happen to believe it's a false hope but the hope is real to them and that's what matters. In reality of course, the universe is a pretty harsh place. Here, evolution is absolutely ruthless and brutal, as it must be for the fittest to survive and develop. It's a hard world we live in for sure. As for hope that you'll live on after death on god's right hand? If that's what floats your boat then fine. Religion fills that need in people to think that death is 'just the beginning' - it's in all religions. I happen to think that death is just a state on non-existence, much like before you were born. I try to enjoy every valuable day I have here because of that and I'll be pissed off at dying because I won't see my family or have fun any more. "Rage against the dying of the light' as Dylan Thomas once said. "there is no right or wrong" Well, someone is ultimately right and someone is wrong. But in the sense that you're free to do what you like then yes. The religious can't prove there's a god because that's the nature of faith. Science will eventually prove there isn't one imo. Every time it takes a step closer (the excellent work being done at the Hadron collider is an example) the religious shift their position to accommodate the development. The Bible was supposedly the actual word of god - and many people still believe that. Now it's a 'guide'. That would have been unheard of 200 years ago. But at the moment you're right, we can't prove a negative. Dawkins says that it's analogous to saying we don't know for certain that there isn't a flying teapot orbiting the sun right now. But everything we know about science tells us it's very unlikely. It's a good debate. EDIT: Quick shout out to Yankee Jack who came up with the best line on this thread so far: "The fact that religious doctrine has poisoned society and persecuted those that failed to march in-line with theocratic mandate is one of the greatest ******ing forces to the development of humanity over the centuries." I so wish that was one of mine.
Its amazing what we have discovered over time but the Bible was clearly written by men and worded using their knowledge of the world at that time, its full of stories to influence the people of that time in the language they used. The same can be said about the Quran and most holy books they are heavily influenced by the age they came from. Me personally and i believe a lot of other people with different faiths see them in this way. I am not personally against a lot of the views i have read on here, I dont believe that anyone should be given or not given power based on religon, I also believe there have been a lot of corrupt people over the years using Religion to their own ends. Religion should not be used as the basis for anything in my opinion and that is what i meant earlier in the thread when i mentioned the lack of opinions from Atheist. For example Sir Terry Wogan reguarly shared his thoughts every day as does Sir David Attenborough and i respect both immensely yet we dont see their views as a Atheists views because in general they dont talk about something they dont believe in.
It appears the greatest ******ing force in our society is political correctness which has resulted from secular libertarianism. People are not allowed to think or speak unless it is in a certain manner. I did not call SAFC a fascist bully boy as an insult. I meant it as an ideology viewpoint. Just like the Anti Nazi League who try to gag the National Front. Who are the real fascists?
