PGF - nice one love your patience - meet me in the Hinge and I'll bring one of my girls Belfast Red's earlier post is worth listening to - especially given where he's from - he's lived it
Don't know much about Paganism because it's not mainstream. I know it's not theistic which is kind of cool. But apparently the Christians hijacked its festivals to varying degrees. Eddie says it best. Worth 8 mins of your time if you have a sense of humour: .."and you dined at Easter. The biggest Pagan festival in the history of ever!" Lol. [video=youtube;Afsa5gkvmlU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afsa5gkvmlU[/video]
I had a laugh. But going back to my question, and as it appears that you take an interest in religion, I thought you would have looked at paganism before deciding you were an atheist. NB I am off to bed now.
I know this isn't aimed at me but I didn't have to 'decide' I was an atheist. I just didn't believe all the stories based on books written hundreds of years after the supposed things happened, and got fed up of being told through my entire childhood that these things were facts. My view of religion is a bit like most people's view of Scientology. They believe in some alien being who brought people to earth and we are constantly reborn (something along those lines, I think!). And most people I know, religious or not laugh to each other about how stupid that idea is and how it's clearly made up. What I fail to see is the difference between this and other religions. There is no evidence for ANY religion, hence the world 'belief' being used instead of 'knowledge'. Now like most others on here I have no issue with other people practicing their faiths (where it's not forced on me like it used to be). This is just an explanation of my position as an atheist. I don't dislike any religions either (of the main ones anyway), in fact I find them very interesting - I even did an AS in Religious Studies (got an E LOL). And the questions I saw about atheist charities earlier: http://www.thinkatheist.com/notes/Secular_charities There are plenty but most of them don't advertise themselves as atheist because that's not their reasoning for existing. In fact with a lot of Catholic charities in particular, they mainly help in 3rd world countries in order to spread their faith. I have a friend who's going to volunteer in Malawi for the next 2 years and has signed up on a fundraiser site. On there they are trying to raise £300 for bibles, £100 for educational materials and £75 for sanitation. Now I'm incredibly happy and proud that they're going over there at all I just wish that they would fix their priorities!
PGF: I endorse TLF and DP above. No I didn't 'look at' Paganism. You make it sound as if I was going around looking for something to believe in. If you're suggesting I should be a Pagan try and convince me. I'm listening. I know they don't believe in a deity (good so far) but believe that the Earth itself is divine (sounds more dodgy to me). Like I've said, nobody is imposing anything on anyone. If you want to worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster I reallly don't care. I don't actually feel the need to believe in anything further than my day to day reality. Whatever works for you really. [EDIT: Just saw an article on Sky News about Muslims being murdered by Buddhists (yes 'peace loving' Buddhists) in Burma. Their homes were seized and if they resisted they were shot. Religious/ ethnic cleansing is going on on a big scale in what is now supposed to be a democratic country. How's that for 'differences', lumberjack? All the people are Burmese and the whole thing is happening because of religion. Those 'differences' are because of religion. If those people were also Buddhists it would never have happened. One woman was raped and decapitated. Truly shocking. PGF, you say us Atheists haven't given a clear indication of how the world would be a better place without religion. That's it - right there.]
KJ - can't believe you really believe it was because of religion! especially when you just used the term ethnic definition from Websters Definition of ETHNIC. 1: heathen. 2. a: of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic
Having a negative opinion about something isn't the same thing as imposing a view. Imposing a view would be me knocking on your door, putting Richard Dawkins on in your front room and setting you a 5,000 word essay on the works of Camus.
What I cant abide is my son has no choice but to have religion thrust upon him in school. Despite our non beliefs. Yet they preach in RE about all religions, but they have never mentioned or spoke in any way about atheism. Why would that be then? I can not have him taken out of the class as it is compulsory.
What I am after is a choice. I dont have one he has religion rammed down his throat. Whether he wants it or not.
"Definition of ETHNIC. 1: heathen. 2. a: of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic " In the case of Burma it's not racial - the victims are the same race as those doing the killing. It's not national - they are the the same nationality. It's not tribal - absolutely nothing to do with tribes. It's not linguistic - they speak the same language. That leaves the only issue between the two groups - one is Muslim the other Buddhist. And that is the reason for the murders. On the report I saw one group was referring to the other by the term 'the Muslims' or 'the Buddhists' and that says it all. Lumber - I'm sorry but you are coming across as an apologist for the horrors that religion has wrought on the world, preferring to blame people and that religion is almost a bystander - something that aggressive people have chosen as a 'difference' or in other words, an excuse. Bit like saying it's people who kill people, not the guns they use. But the guns help a bit though don't they? People kill people for a reason and very rarely for the 'fun' of it. Give them a reason and some will do it. Religion readily gives them that reason because it tells its followers that they are special and that anyone else is inferior. In some cases (the Qu'ran), it mandates the killing of non-believers. Hitchens used to say that religion is in fact a great evil and he has a point when you see stories like this.
I would have thought that before you decided that there was no god that you would have studied a religion that has been with mankind for thousands of years before dismissing it. I asked a simple question. I was not suggesting you should be a pagan and therefore have no reason to convince you.
If I'm not convinced by the scriptures from holy books written hundreds of years after the events occurred I'm hardly going to be turned on by the fact that Man has worshipped the Earth for thousands of years. It's really not going to convince me to dance naked around a tree any time soon. I've been completely open about my beliefs - or lack of them. What are yours? Instead of questioning why I haven't researched every religion under the sun before pinning my colours to the mast maybe you can enlighten us? Oh don't tell me "My faith is my business". What about having the courage of your convictions? It would open up the debate don't you think?
I enjoy a good argument with Jehovah Witnesses especially if you can divert them onto creationism v Darwinism and evolution. I'm a firm believer in evolution. Man is nothing special - just the dominant species on the planet at this moment in time (albeit by a country mile). The dinosaurs were the dominant species of their time but never even got as far as inventing the wheel. The explosion of development of our species in the last 500 years, even 200 years has been phenomenal and unprecedented. JWs do put forward a very interesting theory though that DNA is far too complex to have come about by chance and must therefore have been designed. And if you accept the Big Bang as being 'the start' what was there before that? Martin Rees, the Astronomer Royal, I believe came up with a theory that our universe is just a huge experiment being conducted by a 'superior being' - a bit like the Sims where parameters are set and then you let events take their course and watch what happens. This is more cosmology than religion but an area I find very fascinating.
I was brought up in one of the traditional religions and was therefore indoctrinated! Over the latter years I try to keep an open mind and like to hear peoples views on atheism, humanism and paganism, rather than the mainstream religions. However I find that atheists simply knock religion and offer very little in return. Vetch mentions in the OP that he doesn't hear an atheists "thought for the day" on the radio. I would be interested to hear one!
So I've not read the rest of the article...Just the opener, but in response to this...I would say you are wrong about there being no Atheist point of view on TV or on the Radio...I would say well over 90% would not back up a Christian point of view. It seems, to have a faith (and i'm mostly speaking about Christianity, as I can't speak for the others) is not really looked upon well at all these days. It's the opposite, people with a faith are very much the minority. That's definitely how it is in my world...I hear plenty about the Christian faith being dated and pointless.
