TLF: I've worked in the courts and most magistrates and juries don't give a monkeys about the oath because during a trial they know someone is lying and it doesn't matter whether they've affirmed or sworn on a stack of bibles. I suspect that your feeling comes from within rather than anything someone has said to you. These days affirmations are really common. On the question of the world being 100% Atheist - a wonderful dream But I do accept people get comfort from religion in times of need or in grief, even if it's (IMHO) a 'false' comfort. It's real to them isn't it? I'm waiting for someone to mention Hitler and his often anti-religious activities. In fact he was a practising Catholic and never renounced his faith. Stalin on the other hand.... But neither waged war in the name of religion or anti-religion. Both were extreme nationalists and their terrible deeds were done under a completely different banner. Worth noting though that Hitler was supported by the Catholic Church in many of the things he did, and the Muslim world, notably the Grand Mufti (love that word) of Jersalem had his ear. Of course both were extremely anti-semitic. Hitler was actually proclaimed a prophet in some Arab countries. Why? Because the Qu'ran mandates the murder of Jews, that's why. Funny old world innit?
There is no grey area here what-so-ever. Freedom of speech supports the right of debate and gives no one the right to abuse. Because of this I'd ban him in a heart-beat, in my view, he deliberately disrupts or stops free debate which is the essence of FOS and of our forum. typical stumpy rant.. ...so you are saying that as long as you agree then that's ok...but if you don't like what i or anyone else says then you would ban me or anyone else in a heartbeat........they have a name for someone like you stumpy......A control freak.......
I believe in god.....Iv called upon him to many times not to believe, what god is i have no idea, it what you want god to be i suppose.....There is nothing wrong with going to church or chapel like i have if you get something out of it but i believe that everyone has a choice and there is nothing wrong with that....religion don't start wars...People do A small percentage of every religious persuasion has bad people in it, the majority of people whatever religion they are are good people.....Some people use religion to start wars and they are usually powerful people like for instance Hitler ,stalin, thatcher Saddam and the like.....I believe in god and i accept some dont but thats ok...
Genuine question - are there any organised atheist groups who help the people on the margins of society and the extreme poorest across the world?
PGF: In fact, the vast majority of charities are non-religious/ non-denominational/ secular. I accept that religious groups do a lot of good work helping the poor (Muslim, Christian and others) but there are many more non-religious groups in which Atheists work alongside those of faith. You don't need to follow any religion to be a good person or have charitable tendencies. This list looks pretty impressive: http://bit.ly/114wScG
The issue of religion is for the vast majority just a label here. It's more about culture, where you grew up, how you label yourself. For instance, you can tell if a person is a nationalist based on their speech, if they wear GAA tops, if they follow hurling etc. Generally. They would also broadly define themselves as Catholic or at least from a Catholic community. If you see someone wearing a Rangers top in the County Antrim area, on the other hand, you can safely assume the opposite. The sad thing is that the fight has probably never been about religion or ideology. It's 'us and them', the tribe mentality. Unfortunately religious has become a facet of this. In short... NI is maybe the only place in the world that I could be called a Protestant atheist. EDIT: In terms of atheist organisations, there is the British Humanist Organisation... although it's more of a lobby by the look of it. There is a real problem in the UK re charity - it is far too church-centric. Obviously there are good reasons why it is, logistically and naturally, but it alienates many atheists (or non church goers) who have a lot to give.
But the second a charity labels itself as 'atheist' there will be two unwanted by-products. 1: They'll alienate those of faith who have something to contribute and 2: they'll be labelled a 'religion' and pushing their own agenda - as has happened in this thread. I suspect most charitable atheists go about their work rather more quietly.
I think that the author of that list took a quantum leap by assuming that because they are not religious based they are atheist groups! I mean specifically atheist. Don't jump to conclusions about me KJ. I am aware that you can be a good person and non-religious
PGF I think that by saying I'm jumping to conclusions about you you are jumping to conclusions. Many people think you need religion as a moral compass, that without it you really can't be a good person. I've no idea whether you believed that or not until you just said you didn't. No conclusions were jumped and my comment was a general one - and valid bearing in mind the nature of your post.
The reason I said that was because I asked a question about were there atheist groups who helped the poorest etc in society and you stated that you don't need to follow any religion to be a good person or have charitable tendencies. You seemed to be jumping to the conclusion that that was how I felt! Anyway, moving on (!)
The problem with this is that charities started by atheists won't exclude theists, for obvious reasons, so they're then thought of as non-religious or secular, but not atheist. Supposedly religious charities that also include non-theists aren't looked at in the same way. They still maintain a religious identity, despite the beliefs (or lack of) of those participating. There are a fairly large number of explicitly atheist charities around the world, but they tend to either be local or fairly focused upon one issue.
