1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Controversial- Break up the Band?

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by BCR, Jun 10, 2013.

  1. BCR

    BCR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    23,258
    Likes Received:
    744
    By Kristia Walsh:

    Brendan Rodgers would be forgiven for silencing his alarm clock repeatedly on Monday morning, his first morning back at Melwood. When his head lifts from the pillow, his summer is over -- the working world of scrutiny and pressure resumes.

    At least he has that in common with the average man on the street, then. Last summer, his first as Liverpool manager, he used the rhetoric of somebody who identified with those who pay their hard-earned money to watch football. If they did not believe him then, maybe they will now. Rodgers is no slouch himself, but the first Monday back is always the most difficult.


    That's if he stopped working to begin with. Though he has been on holiday officially, his mind has never been far from next season, evidenced by the proactivity in the transfer market already. His thoughts will have rarely been static, his mind always moving and ever-changing. Also ever-moving and always changing is the metaphorical carousel installed outside Anfield as potential arrivals and departures come and go.

    Rodgers, 40, will wade through the dust and debris at his feet and begin his second season in charge. There is much to do, especially if Champions League qualification is wanted and expected.

    It is at this time of year when supporters identify with their managers much more, and not just because of that Monday morning feeling. Though tactics can be detangled and management questioned, it is the squad reshaping in summer that presents the most fervent response, opening an alternate reality of Liverpool under the leadership of thousands, from Bootle to Bangkok. One hundred different players would be suggested by 20 different people, ranging from improbable to impossible.

    This creates pressure on the club, if only from the more vocal element of its support. Every player monitored by Liverpool prompts the citation of three more who are supposedly better. That's the magnificent irrationality of football, in which Lionel Messi striding through the Shankly Gates upon Pegasus is only good enough for some folk.

    The formula seems simple: buy good players and sell ones no longer required. It has largely been followed so far with the club pursuing the likes of Henrik Mkhitaryan and Kyriakos Papadopoulos, players whose assembly of commendations are matched only by the number of syllables in their names. The anticipated exits of Danny Wilson, Peter Gulacsi and Oussama Assaidi also appear sensible steps toward ridding the squad of players who would offer minimal return in the future.

    This is only the beginning. Kolo Toure and, more than likely , Iago Aspas can be considered the calm before a stormy summer of rumour and counter-rumour. But while the focus will be on who signs for Liverpool, there could be far more important decisions to make elsewhere. The squad may need improving handsomely, but it is unlikely that can happen without other players leaving.

    The two Liver birds that sit upon their perch and preside over the city look both ways, after all -- one toward the city, one out at sea.

    This is what Rodgers and his transfer committee must also do, and how they stand on a perch while they do it -- Liverpool have not enjoyed the most sparkling transfer record over the past five years, a period that has overseen four managers. Indeed, January's purchases of Daniel Sturridge and Philippe Coutinho offered the first unequivocal transfer window success in a long time.

    But the transfer window is not all fun, games and Greek defenders with protruding eyeballs and tempestuous demeanours. There are big decisions to make about who will leave the club this summer, decisions that will not be popular with many, nor will the logic be understood.

    This is to say nothing of Luis Suarez and his eye-fluttering toward La Liga; it is to say nothing of players such as Martin Skrtel and Sebastian Coates, whose inactivity can be translated as imminent departure. Decisions, instead, have to be made on players who are rated -- nay, loved -- by supporters, long-term members of the squad who would be considered part of Rodgers' first-choice 11 and were very much so last season.

    Pepe Reina, Daniel Agger, Glen Johnson and Lucas Leiva have amassed nearly 1,000 Liverpool appearances between them, and suggestion of their sales would not meet a favourable reaction. But bids are reportedly being prepared and will inevitably come in for them.

    The quartet is undoubtedly a fine one, though all four have suffered in recent years. Reina is not performing at the level he was earlier in his Liverpool career, though he improved immeasurably as last season progressed; Johnson went from one of the side's best players to a genuine concern, though accommodating for Jamie Carragher could account for that.

    For Agger and Lucas, it is a matter of injuries past, present and future: The Dane's injury record has improved, playing 35 league games this season -- his best league tally since joining the club in 2006 -- but worries should still persist over his long-standing back problem; worries, too, over Lucas' recovery should remain, the 26-year-old's reintegration into the midfield not as effortless as expected.

    Liverpool do not need to sell, but whether they wish to sell is a different matter. It is certainly something to consider.

    Reina and Johnson will turn 31 and 29 in August, respectively, and Agger is 28; though Lucas is still only 26, his two injures, sustained so close together, could also provide problems in longevity. The wage bill must also be reduced further, with these four signing long-term deals on high wages within the past three years.

    But forget financial reasoning off the pitch, for there is rationale on it too. The performance of the defence last season -- conceding two goals or more in 17 league games demonstrates issues, but whether collectively or individually is yet to be determined. With Rodgers' style of football so keenly talked about before a competitive ball was retained in possession, there were solid, preconceived notions of which players would fit his way of football. These four were at the list's summit. Preconceptions can be wrong.

    There is also the lack of success to acknowledge. They may be good players and it may be unjust that their trophy cabinets amount to a few medals and a spray-painted Adidas trainer, but it is also the reality. What has eight legs, 150 international caps and just two trophies? It may seem like a joke, but there is nothing humorous about achieving just an FA Cup and Carling Cup between them at Liverpool. There have been other brushes with triumph, of course: Agger and Reina played in a Champions League final in 2007 and a semifinal in 2008, all bar Johnson went within four points of the Premier League title in 2009 and a year later saw all four reach the Europa League semi-final.

    There are caveats, of course -- with a five-year history so tumultuous, Liverpool is a club full of them. That these players have been either bought or played the majority of their football during the asset-stripping, morale-sapping ownership of Tom Hicks and George Gillett cannot be ignored. There is also a very uncontroversial viewpoint that if clubs wish to obtain Champions League qualification, they do not sell players regarded as among the best they have -- certainly not with changes happening elsewhere.

    This is not to advocate the sale of any of Reina, Agger, Johnson or Lucas; this is not to claim Rodgers or Fenway Sports Group are actively seeking to offload them, or that bids for them will even be financially attractive anyway. This is not even necessarily about these four individuals, but rather to ask questions of the whole squad, to leave no player or position safeguarded. If Liverpool are to progress further, questions must be asked by Rodgers on what has gone wrong in both his first year in charge and the years preceding that.

    The answers may not be what the supporters want. But that's where he differs from them, as much as he wants to identify with them. He is the one with the hard questions to face and find the difficult answers. He is the one who not only has to smile at the glamorous incomings, but squirm at the potential outgoings. With a seventh-place finish last season and 12 points from fourth, he has a lot of work to do, and there's plenty of smiling and squirming ahead.
     
    #1
  2. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    108,071
    Likes Received:
    67,523
    Good article. The sale of Reina, Agger, Johnson or Lucas would mean that if Rodgers got the players in wrong then we would be deep in the **** but if they did go and we had the kind of transfer fees that they command and then Rodgers does get the players in right we could be set up well. Too much of a risk imo we should keep all 4 and look to strengthen around them.
     
    #2
  3. BCR

    BCR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    23,258
    Likes Received:
    744
    Too much of the spine to gut for me but I see the points and understand the thought process. Have to be so spot on with the purchases though which never happens 100%.
     
    #3
  4. SJD

    SJD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,831
    Likes Received:
    32
    My God that went on Bluff lol
     
    #4
  5. BCR

    BCR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    23,258
    Likes Received:
    744
    Sorry man, if I come across articles that are engaging I just cut and paste, prefer the whole thing to the link.
     
    #5
  6. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    108,071
    Likes Received:
    67,523
    I hate it when there's only a link as you can be sure that site is blocked in work.
     
    #6
  7. SJD

    SJD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,831
    Likes Received:
    32
    Tis ok because it was a good thought provoking article. I do think we are going to see a few comings and goings in the summer
     
    #7
  8. Red Hadron Collider

    Red Hadron Collider The Hammerhead

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    57,478
    Likes Received:
    9,839
    I can't be arsed reading all that.
     
    #8
  9. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    29,130
    Likes Received:
    7,824
    Can't afford to change that many players in such a short space of time - all 4 are experienced players and it would completely change the team too quickly.

    However, I wouldn't be bothered in Johnson left - don't rate him.
     
    #9
  10. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,701
    Likes Received:
    29,589
    you lot are a bunch of twats.. read the damn thing cos you sure as hell don't work given the ****e you lot post.

    <applause> for a fine article.

    the point must be made that you should not mind the name on the shirt but the effort and skills applied while in the shirt. if every named player in this article left i would not give a damn cos in 5 year? most will retire/be gone anyway.

    all that matter is Rodgers' ability to put real talent on the pitch with the right determination to succeed and i nthe right system to allow them to succeed... at this point its a big IF when it comes to the unproven Rodgers.

    time i think to start delivering.
     
    #10

  11. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    29,130
    Likes Received:
    7,824
    Getting rid of experienced players who may be under-performing, expecting the team dynamic to not be damaged as a result, and replacing the experience and quality in one window isn't easy.

    We need to phase them out which should minimise the impact on the dressing room. The players grew more accustomed to the style of play as the season wore on - if we get rid of these players and bring new ones in, then we have another settling in period.
     
    #11
  12. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    108,071
    Likes Received:
    67,523
    <laugh> Just say what you feel MITO.
     
    #12
  13. Red Hadron Collider

    Red Hadron Collider The Hammerhead

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    57,478
    Likes Received:
    9,839
    I'm going to have to drop him <laugh>
     
    #13
  14. johnsonsbaby

    johnsonsbaby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    22,359
    Likes Received:
    11,980

    I want both!

    I know what you mean - nobody's bigger than the club and all that - but I can't imagine what my memories would be like if you took out all the individual player memories and only focussed on what Liverpool the team did. It's the individual geniuses, nutcases, stroppy so and so's and huge talents that make the team 'live'.

    Having said that, I will support Liverpool no matter which players/managers happen to find themselves lucky enough to be at our great club! My loyalty isn't tested by any individuals who appear from time to time that I don't happen to like.
     
    #14
  15. 100% agree with this, I agree with almost everything MITO says <whistle>
     
    #15
  16. Superredripper

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    3
    Great article.

    My hopes for next season are simple. I see we're not in any European competition, this is a huge advantage, no pointless trips to Macedonia etc, our form after our battle with Zenit St Petersburg picked up, I believe the 70 point mark is realistic. If we stay injury free and keep our core together.

    Youngsters, especially Jack Robinson, to push harder than ever for a starting birth, I believe Robbo could go on to great things, one slip from Enrique and he could find it hard to reclaim his spot. Would like to see more of Jon Flanagan too, he's immensely popular among the players. Same goes for Morgan and Coady.

    To keep Suarez If you want to reach the top you need top players, regardless of the attitude he shows, watching him link up with Sturridge, Coutinho and Gerrard will be magical at times. Plus we'll be guaranteed a win at Carrow Road...

    To finish 4th. Maybe premature, but if the squad is strengthened accordingly, kept in good health and others fart about after playing in Europe and lose 3-0 at Villa Park, then who's to say we cant make it?
     
    #16
  17. I'm just waiting for Zingy to come along and join MITO and I because of the length of this article <badger>
     
    #17
  18. Klopp's Mannschaft

    Klopp's Mannschaft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    6,946
    Likes Received:
    1,879
    No one would buy Johnson, he's staying whether we want him or not. His wages are huge for a defender, which is mostly the reason he'll be staying.

    We can do better overall, but as an attacking RB, there's not many better in the league when he's on form. Could be in worse shape for that position.
     
    #18
  19. Lucas Talking

    Lucas Talking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    1,312
    tl:dr synopsis:

    It is off-season, we may buy players, we may sell others, Rodgers likes lie-ins.
     
    #19
  20. I've just read all that <yikes>

    I tend to agree with what the guy says, its basically a case of every player has a price. There is absolutely no way that all four of those would leave this summer, that is not what he is saying, he's not even saying one of them will! However, as good as a player can be, that are not always the best option for the team. The perfect example is Berbatov at Man Utd; brilliant player that is better technically than any of the other forwards that Man Utd possessed at the time but he wasn't a team player. Counter that with there so-called weak midfield that doesn't possess world stars yet they still win titles etc.

    The team is always much more important than any individual and it MUST remain like that. Would you rather have a Henderson or Suso? One is full of energy and will run through a brick wall for the Liverbird, the other is very good technically but lacks the drive etc.

    We have had some very good players over the years but what have we won of serious note? An FA and League Cup! That is not good enough for a club like Liverpool. Sure, there have been off field problems but these players have been in this situation a long time, as it effected their mentalities?

    Personally, I like all four highlighted but I also think it would be good to see all "Rafa players" moved on so that a new era can commence and as much as I love the player, that includes Gerrard! However, we need to avoid players like Allen, Borini, Assaidi and Sahin; not questioning their abilities here, I am referring to their contribution since arriving.
     
    #20

Share This Page