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ShanksHateTheMancs said:
3 LMA awards to his name
4th best Everton win percentage ever

What about the average prem league finishing position, how does Moyes compare to that? Of course its a rhetorical question because you will never do any research. However I did that for you

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22581940

Previous managers average 14th, Moyes average 7-8th position. If anything then he is Sir above average, So you are talking absolute ballcocks! Everton were on a massive slide before Moyes came in flirting with relegation. Within a couple of years they were in the champs league!!!!!!!! All this at a time when money is king, and Everton have none. When the traditional top four, has now become a top six. Historically Everton were probably on a much even financial footing, right now and during Moyes time they have possibly never been so far behind in that regard.

Have you ever heard of a word called CONTEXT? Its what intelligent people are able to use to look past black and white and look at the various shades of grey that also exist. The same word that the judges of the LMA probably used to give Moyes his 3 awards. Using this word you are able to take in to account circumstances, resources, mittigating factors, environment, and see the bigger picture; admittedly this takes a few brain cells, so I understand why you are struggling with this. His mangerial tenure coincides with a period in history that has seen possibly the BEST ever manager in Fergie, the one lauded as the future best in Mourinho, 2 teams throwing truck loads of cash around, and that is just a tiny fragment.

Seems it is you that is ' below average', certainly when it comes to critical thinking and intelligent debate.
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You keep picking random periods of time to fit your needs it doesn't change the fact he has underachieved by Evertons historic standards. as a scouse you should be familiar with history.

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/all-time-table/pl-years
 
London's Only EC Winners said:
If they were that bad, how come they beat you in CL.

92, 100 and 85 points: If they weren't up against one of the greatest club sides ever they would have won La Liga three times in a row.
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He was brought in to overtake Barcelona.

he failed to do that so he flopped.

i imagine h was the highest paid manager on earth and paid as such because the expectation was to over take Barcelona as the number one side in spain during his tenure. 1 titles doesnt make them better.

He himself also admitted how lucky he was in knocking us out so not the best example.
 
UIR - Part Time User said:
He was brought in to overtake Barcelona.

he failed to do that so he flopped.

i imagine h was the highest paid manager on earth and paid as such because the expectation was to over take Barcelona as the number one side in spain during his tenure. 1 titles doesnt make them better.

He himself also admitted how lucky he was in knocking us out so not the best example.
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I would say he was brought in to topple Barca AND win La Decima.

He failed to win La Decima that's for sure as he wanted to win El Classico before the Bayern game last season and after going 2 up, real's legs and pens gave out in the second leg.

Still a decent effort after playing Barca the match before.

He failed in Europe, losing to Barca, Bayern and Dortmund in three semis.
 
London's Only EC Winners said:
If they were that bad, how come they beat you in CL.

92, 100 and 85 points: If they weren't up against one of the greatest club sides ever they would have won La Liga three times in a row.
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And if SAF hadn't come up against one of the greatest club sides ever we would have won 3 CL titles in four years.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts <applause>
 
If, buts, candy, nuts, averages, schmaverages. Completely irrelevant whether or not Jose/Moyes suceeded/failed at Madrid/Everton

Lets deal in objective facts, not supposition:

Jose: 20 trophies in a little over 10 years. A better return than just about any manager that I can think of, winning a fistful at unfancied Porto including a UEFA cup and a Champs League, dispelling the myth he can only win things win an unlimited budget.

Moyes: exactly zero (0) (nil) trophies. Not even a Carling Cup. Don't see Everton ever doing anything of note in Europe when they qualified in the past, unlike Jose at Porto. Nor did Everton ever do anything of note in the league apart from consistently being about 10 points off a champs league spot, qualifying just the once.

Logical Conclusion: Jose > Moyes. End Of.
Heck, even Martinez > Moyes <laugh>
 
BelugaWhale said:
If, buts, candy, nuts, averages, schmaverages. Completely irrelevant whether or not Jose/Moyes suceeded/failed at Madrid/Everton

Lets deal in objective facts, not supposition:

Jose: 20 trophies in a little over 10 years. A better return than just about any manager that I can think of, winning a fistful at unfancied Porto including a UEFA cup and a Champs League, dispelling the myth he can only win things win an unlimited budget.

Moyes: exactly zero (0) (nil) trophies. Not even a Carling Cup. Don't see Everton ever doing anything of note in Europe when they qualified in the past, unlike Jose at Porto. Nor did Everton ever do anything of note in the league apart from consistently being about 10 points off a champs league spot, qualifying just the once.

Logical Conclusion: Jose > Moyes. End Of.
Heck, even Martinez > Moyes <laugh>
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Nobody has said Jose isnt better than Moyes. He clearly is.

We are discussing whether they failed at their last club going off the expectations the clubs had when they appointed them managers.

Jose did.

Moyes didnt.

Also we all know Moyes would have a few trophies if it wasnt for certain factors unfairly helping others. I feel Everton would of been what Chelsea were in the 90's. Not quite the top end of clubs but good for a cup run or two and competing at the top end of the table.
 
ShanksHateTheMancs said:
I agree; if Arsenal spend some cash too, could be one of the best seasons in the prem ever, in terms of competitiveness! However the prem is crying out for some new world class players.
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At the top? Yes

Rest of the league will just get left further behind though. It's happening across all the leagues and could lead to a Super League.
 
soon as fergi said he's goin. Rooney knew united will go down hill so that's why he requested a transfer. Moyes has proved nothing all the hype about them finishing fourth and they finished 10 points back. No threat to spuds an the gunners one bit. No trophies no success in Europe. Never kept his best players. Has a ****e record against Jose. Good lk next season you will need it. I have respect united but looks like you have a mountain to climb otherwise we will knock you off your perch. Jose is coming for your trophy and you and city should be doing your best this summer with the players you bring in
 
theevilreddevil said:
Most Chelsea fans are saying it about Moyes that's what im getting at. Now he has his chance to prove himself at the top level as did other top managers Jose at Porto ect.....
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True but Mourinho was one of the most coveted managers in Europe when he won the CL with Porto on the back of a UEFA Cup win - the biggest stage of them all.

The issue with Moyes is that he has no experience of winning things and comes in after one of the greatest managers of all time. When United started badly under Fergie, nobody panicked because he was a reassuring figure and everybody realised they'd come good. Moyes will have to hit the ground running, and he's up against Mourinho - a manager with far more experience and pedigree and Pellegrini who is the same. And if we're beeping brutally honest, based on the assumption Navas/Fernandinho sign for City and Schurrle for Chelsea + all loanees come back then City and Chelsea are probably stronger squad wise as well.

I'm not prepared to make definitive predictions until the window is closed but what I will say for sure is that both City and Chelsea (possibly Arsenal too) are going to be a lot stronger next season and United wont be as strong next season as they were last.
 
District Line said:
True but Mourinho was one of the most coveted managers in Europe when he won the CL with Porto on the back of a UEFA Cup win - the biggest stage of them all.

The issue with Moyes is that he has no experience of winning things and comes in after one of the greatest managers of all time. When United started badly under Fergie, nobody panicked because he was a reassuring figure and everybody realised they'd come good. Moyes will have to hit the ground running, and he's up against Mourinho - a manager with far more experience and pedigree and Pellegrini who is the same. And if we're beeping brutally honest, based on the assumption Navas/Fernandinho sign for City and Schurrle for Chelsea + all loanees come back then City and Chelsea are probably stronger squad wise as well.

I'm not prepared to make definitive predictions until the window is closed but what I will say for sure is that both City and Chelsea (possibly Arsenal too) are going to be a lot stronger next season and United wont be as strong next season as they were last.
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