People generally feel more up for it if they are stood up. A safe standing area means you can stand up without worry of being "in the wrong" if somebody asks you to sit down. Those who want to stand will do so and therefore anybody who actually wants to watch the game in that area will be forced to do so. Those who have no interest in being involved in that will move to other areas of the ground and those who want to be part of the atmosphere and "carrying on" as my dad calls it will move towards the standing area. It works. It's gotten to the point at Elland Road where the stewards don't even bother asking people in the North Stand to sit down any more (even though they are, by law, supposed to) because they know they won't get a response by the fans. And that stand is always always vocal. I never feel quite right shouting or singing when I'm sat down.
I really do have a major issue with any supporter being judged by any other as a better or worse supporter based on whether they sing or not! Yes it is great to get the atmosphere going, but I refuse to accept that anyone who goes to watch their team, whether as a season ticket holder or not, is any less passionate about their team than any other just on the basis of whether they stand up or whether they sing or not. That is nonsense! I have been watching Watford since 1969, I have been a season ticket holder for at least 30 years, and I am passionate about my team. I don't go to matches and stand up in front of those that want to sit down, and I don't go joining in with the songs (well sometimes I do!). Very happy for others to be singing, but why does that make me any less a supporter or any less passionate!
Spot on. If it's about who makes the most noise then that nutter at the front of the upper rous who bangs on the hoardings would be voted best supporter of the season eevry year. i very much doubt those sitting around him would agree!
Goldentrue, rarely have I felt more grateful for a post on this site. There is no need to disparage any fans who've supported the club for many years. Suggesting they are in some way inferior because they don't yell themselves hoarse every week is nonsense. Repped
Absolutely with you, Dan...or the family of braindeads in the UR who used to shout abuse non-stop at their own team whenever we didn't play well. Repped
Passionate fella, isn't he? He's a qualified referee as well! Repped! They, I believe, are long gone. Same part of the UR. They'd abuse the team even when we were playing well as I recall. Apparently they got properly told... Repped!
I would like to respond to this as the thread starter. I have no issue with people wanting: to stay sitting to sit and not chant etc There will always be a % of people who will chant etc and a larger % who don't. The same everywhere. I started the thread because I was disappointed at the lack of passion and/or noise from our supporters at Wembley. I noted that the players want our support. Just watch Deeney to see this. There were various differing views expressed. Discussion then shifted to the Vic itself. In my view there is often a lack of atmosphere and vocal support there. A real disappointment after a 4+ hour drive down. If improvements are made to how those who want to sing and/or stand this will do a lot to raise the sound level. The team have played well enough to deserve our support this season so we should be able to give them better support from our side. I don't expect everyone to make a noise, I am now 60 and have to be a little more careful + I cant sing a note in tune!
Perhaps you would be better off finding a new hobby then and go watch Rugby/Cricket/Tennis?? Either that or sit in the Rous upper?? These would be less judgemental situations and would be less pressure/expectations to be vocal in. Only suggestions. End of the day Football was invented by the working class for the working class.
It's been played for many centuries in all sorts of social contexts. Many histories suggest it was encouraged and codified by the middle classes as a means of encouraging an ideology of fair play and keeping the working classes clear of revolutionary notions when they weren't actually working. Should we apply to you Mitch to see if we are the right sort to attend?
Perhaps they should just ban anyone who deosnlt sing for 90 minutes and then see what's left.... None of my comments are aimed at you yorkie - it's a thought provoking thread and it's interesting to see what different attitudes posters have to the whole issue.
I don't think anyone is taking issue with this, Yorkie. It's more the cheap jibes at the Upper Rous (often by people who don't go to many games and never sit in the UR where passions are generally very evident) and the implication that both older and quieter fans are somehow inferior, regardless of how strongly they feel about the club or the distances they travel to see every game. A noisy atmosphere is good but there is more than one kind of supporter. I'll say nothing further on the matter after this post, but it riles me to be told I should be watching tennis. I shall endeavour in future to ignore cheap shots.
It would be a real library then Dan no worries tennis ? ... cheap shots ? I don't buy the class war stuff either.....
When I was younger and first started to go to all home and away games I loved the make up of our support. Given that hooliganism was still a big issue and facilities were dire it was amazing to have so many pensioners both male and female and I'm convinced we had more ladies in our support (percentage wise)than many other clubs. I'm pretty sure this led to us being treated marginally less bad than fans of some other clubs when we were on our travels and it used to be a source of club pride as well. I donlt think the dynamics have changed that much - ok there's less noise but once the new stand is sorted then it will improve. However, i do think that there is an element of uniqueness about our support which should be cherished.
If I may offer my two penn'orth here, the main thing that I love about this forum is the way you gentlemen, and a few ladies, are able to hold differing points of view without abuse! These days it is quite expensive to go to a football match, anybody that pays their hard-earned cash is entitled to show their support in any manner they choose! Some people are naturally introverted, they can't help that and it doesn't make them any less of a fan! Please guys, I'm feeling very emotional today, can we all please shake hands and play nicely?
I would agree that professional football originated amongst the Industrial working class. But, here maybe you have stumbled on one basic problem - is Watford really a homogeneous working class town ? Was it ever that - at least in the sense that Burnley or Blackburn were ? Most of the loudest stadiums in England are located either in large ex working class areas Liverpool, Stoke City, Sunderland etc. or in generally problem areas eg. Millwall. Watford doesn't fit in to either of those categories.
Good point this one. It take a lot for a rural town to bring it all together. I am trying to think of one similar club that has fervent support. Any offers? I think the class thing is in the past really in so many ways. Look at the players.... most prem players are in a social elite. Most middle aged supporters have got A levels and many younger ones been to Univ. Football is our national game.....
A number of years ago, before the days of students loans, that age group were able to go to quite a few matches if they wanted. Today I suggest that many are not able to afford so much regular support, and maybe there are figures to suggest that an area like Watford does have quite a lot of students.
Yes, Watford (in the main) is a working class Town IMO. It's the others parts of Herts - St Albans, Potters Bar, Harpenden, Redbourn, Abbotts/Kings, Bushy, Rickmansworth etc that are middle class.
I doubt if there's an entirely homogenous working class town anywhere, though some are obviously closer than others. It's interesting that many of those which come closest, like Bradford for example, also have some of the most elitist schools. Watford of course has its own selective grammar schools (though they may claim they're not!). Having taken sports teams there I'm not convinced many of the students would claim working class parents, even though the catchment area is supposed to be the environs of the school.
