Well the plans for the re-development at Home Park are now online.......reams and reams of it.......there are many anti-grandstand/Brent readers at the moment who are devouring the info to start to pull it apart and try their hardest to stop it.......personally I can't be bothered.....I'll just wait for the fan to stop spinning.
Could not give 2 hoots to be honest, wish they would concentrate on planning the squad for next season and not put us through another nail-biting season of gloom and despair. Some people just seem to think that Brent arrived waving an open check book and promising the world which he most certainly did not, that said I am disappointed in him expected a little more investment in the team. As for chucking money into the stadium and this "it is not big enough" camp I can only guess they have not seen the side over the past 4 or so seasons, unless we are planning to affiliate with the Society for the Mentally Unstable the stadium is way big enough to cover crowds for a longtime yet.
The objections are more about future requirements should the team get back up the leagues. The problem most have with the size is that it shows little ambition and to add to the proposed stand or ground capacity would not be easy. There is also the greed on the part of Brent in that they see him as asset stripping the club to feather his outside interests yet showing little interest in the football bit. I find that part hard to disagree with if I'm honest because it looks more and more that he only ever took Argyle on for the City wide contracts he would gain. That would be ok if he invested some of it in the club but it ain't looking likely. The argument about size mattering does look a bit foolish at the moment given half the stadium is empty on matchdays and our record of massive crowds is hardly huge. It is felt that he is downsizing the football capacity to allow him to include retail parts that won't benefit the football bit as much as was expected. Brent has made a big play on how the content would benefit the club financially now and in the future but it seems not all of it is for Argyle. Yes they will make money but not all of it. It does seem that the goalposts keep getting moved and it is away from the club rather than nearer. I went to the open day in the Theatre Royal when the plans were first shown to the public. They were very sketchy and any questions were fudged by the Reps there. Didn't know this bit or didn't know that bit. Since then even those have been watered down. I can understand the resentment and mistrust even if I don't totally agree with all of it.
Brent is only in this for himself and what he can get from taking on the club! i bet he is good friends with the Lord Mayor/ess or Person!! We just want some players and to get the club going upwards not to keep dropping and struggling.. I have no interest in any development, only the team. I agree with Mex, that Brent needs to be putting a little into the club for players..
The cost of building the stand isn't diverting cash from the squad. It's been crystal clear from the start that all the bidders were interested in the property, not the club. Brent has never portrayed any other position. He did not at any stage say that he would put significant sums in to subsidise the playing side: the whole emphasis has been organic growth & self sufficiency. Those funds were never there for players in the first place so they can't be lost now. The money to build the stand is a penalty cost on Brent's hotel development. If the hotel development doesn't go ahead, there won't be a new stand, that's the potential penalty on the club. Fans may not like it but they could at least stick to the facts.
Having trolled my way through all the plans....I feel overwhelmed with all the detail that is mentioned.......and all this at a struggling 4th tier club.....ok we don't want to be at the wrong end of the Football League pyramid forever.......so future requirements must take some place in the development. The main problem seems to be how far expectations should be taken.....this is where the problem lies amongst the fanbase. One end of the spectrum would say......how surprised they are that this is happening at a club that not long ago was in administration.......so pleasing those with that view isn't too hard. The other end of the spectrum would be saying that this development isn't futuristic enough......saying ...when we get into the Premiership we will be too small to be able to financially compete with the big boys. That would be true....so you must plan big to draw the crowds and attract the players that you need to make that jump up the divisions...that would be their argument. The more cautious would say, as we rise through the league pyramid and finance would rise....then would be the time to develop further.....and the Premiership being reached would open the gates to Skys millions....which would then allow more paid for development. The hardliners would hit back and say that your small time thinking now,which includes all the other development linked to the grandstand development would stop you expanding the stadium to take the necessary spectators that would (hopefully) be drawn to Premiership clubs coming to Home Park......such as Man U & C, Arsenal, Chelsea,Spurs and Liverpool etc etc. Having trawled through PASOTI & ATD comments on this subject you can see the divisions that exist amongst posters PASOTI, not my favourite site, has varying views.....BUT they do discuss the relevent points, praising and condemning various points in a reasonably articulate way. ATD...just shoot themselves in the foot, by being anti everything to do with it, finding no redeeming points at all. You get the feeling that because it is James Brent behind it ....then everything about it is tainted with the devil. I feel that is an unacceptable approach and is only destructive never constructive. It is hard to have your own point of view on ATD, you are seen as a possible plant from PASOTI and must be crucified on the spot.....sensible knows how they latch on to alternative views....he has been on the end of much comment and is seen as boring,boring. After awhile you wonder if you need that sought of discussion everytime you post. My one comment is the ice rink.....have they thought it through properly.......why 1500 seats.......if they were trying to bring a bigtime ice hockey franchise and league ice hockey into the development...you would need a bigger spectator seating area than that........wasn't the old rink that size ? I feel that this development will cause too much distraction from Sheridan building a winning team to succeed, if it isn't kept under control......I feel there are those around that would prefer PAFC to fail in this development and even crash into non-league......are they really fans in the first place ?
Well said notDistant......those facts where never hid from the fans........it is just sinking into whatever Brent does is evil.... so we must oppose it
Not strictly true NDG he made it clear he was not going to provide a bottomless pit of cash for the team but a few quotes from when he took over: The first focus is to pay the staff their first full month's wages for a very long time." - Creditable "Then it's trying to rebuild performances on the pitch and the financial position of the club." -Sensible And Brent says he will help fund a resurgence in the club's fortunes. "We have the financial power to do it, but we've been very open that we would like like-minded people to join us." - STILL WAITING No were did he say I do not have the slightest interest in the club as a footballing concern. You know I have defended him many times but am starting to get the feeling he lies like a mat and couldn´t give a straight answer if his dangly bits depended on it. Last season we had the Brent "We have a very competitive budget" comment immediately followed by Fletchers "We have missed out on several targets as they were beyond our means" Sheridan has already stated we could have had 3 new signings but would not meet their requirements. Brent is a businessman and he knows that at times you have to invest in new equipment, technology, property or personnel. This is an investment based on future profits. Well we have been operating with clapped out machines, controlled by a Sinclair ZX81, in a building falling down around our ears with monkeys running it for a fair while now. Time to invest in the future of the business and not just his bank balance. The thing that really concerns me is he has stated he will not hand the club over until it is financially solid, no mention of successful, this seems to fly in the face of his if anyone with a real football based agenda comes along I will step aside stance pre-takeover. Jury is still out on him.................... but I have them building the gallows whilst we wait and see.
He is indeed a businessman Mexijan and so understands precisely what you've suggested: the purpose of investing is to earn future profits. Actually it's future cash flows but I'll let you off on the technicality. The problem is that football clubs don't generate profits or cash flows: what typically happens is that if you are promoted, you have to recruit better players and that consumes the extra income. That being so, there is no financial or business purpose in investing in football. You are going to say that it happens at other clubs. I'll answer that either they're stupid businessmen or they aren't investing for business reasons. Until transfer fees and wages come down to a sustainable level, there never will be a business reason for investing in football.
I see that James Brent is stating that he hopes that these plans will be approved.........because he is saying that there is no plan B for PAFC.....is that a hint of applying pressure on those that oppose this development......and telling Plymouth Council Planning Officers that maybe more than HHP development is involved in this decision ?
Hmmm might disagree on that NDG yes it will increase future cash flows but if that cash flow it is at a negative margin then probably would not invest, so will stick with my profits but as you said technicality. So what you are saying is that Brent will never invest in the team? Teams do operate within their means, what I am at a loss to is how clubs with much smaller gates, less potential income are making ´potentially ' better signings. Either they are cheating the fair play system or Argyle or not maximizing our allowable expenditure. At the end of the day PAFC is a brand and like any brand requires a customer following, to maintain this it must provide a level of customer satisfaction which it has failed to do for sometime now. There are the floating 1000-1500 paying customers who with a little success could be lured back to HP and also probably 1000 who are close to changing brands and this is were I am losing faith in Brent. He is a smart cookie and must see this but whilst I appreciated he was not in it solely for the football I did not realize just how low it was on his agenda or not even on it. I am not suggesting a throwing of cash at the club and signing Messi, Xavi or Neymar but a sensible speculation on some proven quality lower league players will hardly dent his/companies net worth and potentially will improve cash flow, and hopefully margin. It is much harder and more expensive to launch a new brand or revive an ailing one and the longer this goes on the harder it will be. We are somewhat cynical to the ´plastics´ brigade but in all honesty they are just acting as normal consumers and today brand loyalty is less than it was years ago in general not just football. Still a while left to see who comes in during the summer so will give him the last benefit of my doubt, now just popping down to Home Depot for some 6 x 4 and a short length of rope...just in case. Argyle as a non-league club and his posh new complex might turn into a bit of a white elephant.
People are not asking Brent to splash the cash as such. They are asking him to give a little of the cash he will make to the club and take a little less profit for his pension fund. IF he has the good of the football club at heart as he said he had at the outset then it isn't asking for the moon. People would accept the property developer bit more if it wasn't all about lining his pockets first and foremost. What we had originally was a "trust in Stapes" mentality which went badly wrong. To do the same again with "Trust in Brent" is asking a lot. I don't trust him one bit anymore having been willing to give the benefit of the doubt originally. I think, once he has exhausted his cash making opportunities he will be off into history at the first shout and leave the club to sink slowly or quickly into the quicksand of obscurity. He won't even look back.
Sensible I just don't get it. The club is getting what is, let's be honest, a embarrassment on that side of the ground replaced with a shiny new stand at zero capital cost. He is making less out of it than he could do! Property developers do line their pockets first & foremost - in case anyone hadn't noticed, that's the way capitalism works. But in doing to he's providing the city with a hotel it badly needs, an ice rink, a 10 screen cinema in a facilty which with the Life Centre, is something Plymouth can be proud of and enjoy. Oh, and the jobs to go with it too.
That opening statement isn't true notdistant. HE HAD NO CHOICE. Yes shouted loud and long. The only reason he got the go-ahead, or at least will get, is part of it was he provide the club with completion of the ground. He is giving us nothing at all. He has no choice but to do that so he is doing it as cheaply as possible with the minimum being handed over to Argyle the football club. It was my understanding at the Theatre Royal showing that Argyle would have the benefit of the content of the stand. Seems however that it isn't so. He has squeezed every square inch out of the land to help him build other things. He is surrounding the ground with buildings that make it practically impossible to build more capacity in the future. Despite his statement that he wanted supporter involvement and consultation and openess and so on, he takes absolutely no notice of the supporters whatsoever. He is happy to meet with them and spin his ideas but what is implied at those meetings often turn out to be a lot less when reality arrives. He completely ignores the supporters in the end. He is the master of spin with his "memberships" rather than season tickets. Be part of the club but only by passing over top dollar for your ticket is as far as it goes. As I said, once he has extracted he last pound from anything he can do, I think he will not give a damn. All the soft spoken nice sounding words are just bull of the first order.
You want that to be true Sensible but it isn't. The Council could not demand benefit for a commercial organisation like PAFC in return for planning permission. That must must be obvious if you think about it. The council can accept benefit to the COMMUNITY as a whole e.g. road improvements, a school, a new village hall etc etc but not commercial benefit. Otherwise we'd have corruption rife in local government wouldn't we? I'm not saying it's not advantageous if there are improvments to Home Park but there certainly don't have to be, especially since the other elements are already greatly beneficial to the city. Are you seriously suggesting that the council would turn down a new cimema, hotel, ice rink etc etc exactly where it wants them to benefit 0.25m people plus for the 2,000 that sit in that grandstand every other Saturday through part of the year? Are you seriously suggesting this development or something very like it wouldn't happen if the football club wasn't involved? Of course it would, the council want it to happen.
The council is corrupt.. ask Tat person Pengelly... she steals thousands from the people of Plymouth// oh and very friendly with Brent.. it stinks..
I was going to use that one Plym but not much to shout about let alone scream about at HP lately Home of Moans and Groans maybe more apt
