Well first I'd like to say this is not all about the Hamilton stuff, so be prepared for an essay! Firstly, what a Monaco GP that was. I missed the race live cause I went to see POSH het promoted, but I watched it on the iplayer. Very eventful to say the least. Schumacher I have to say was at his best until his tyres were ruined. I think he effectively showed everyone else where to overtake in Monaco. Also, very good race but unlucky in the closing stages for Petrov, Sutil and Kobayashi. I was definitely not expecting that! I thought Alonso would win that and Button second has it not been for the red flag. I actually hoped it would have finished like that so the gap from Vettel to everybody else is minimised. How did they manage to miss all of the fiasco and the swimming pool chicane I'll never know. Some very good driving between them. Mclaren and Ferrari have now shown they can challenge Vettel a lot more closely, they just need a little more downforce for high speed corners and better qualifying pace. Now, regarding the 'incidents' I think the Hamilton/Massa at Loews' was Hal and half; a racing incident. But the tunnel was Massa's fault. He should really have backed off and let Hamilton have the position because he should know that it very hard to overtake there because of the marbles, as Alonso found out with Ralf Schumacher. Regarding Maldonado, I think Hamilton wasn't to blame to be honest, maybe another racing incident. And finally his comments. He had every right to say what he did, and I wish he started after Spa or Fuji 2008. It's about time F1 drivers were allowed to be as honest as he was. As far as the racism remark, I hope it makes the Fia just think about this. Their corruption is getting too obvious now; Sepp Blater would be proud of them Finally, I'd like to just raise the issue of some of the ridiculous comments I read about Monaco, mainly from football fans that are winding us F1 fans up I know but still. There's do much hypocrisy in those posts it's beyond a 'fricken' joke. I guarantee if this was any other driver, up and down the grid, the story would be completely the opposite. We don't have the best reputation here from sites like 606 due to issue we all know about, but this isn't helping. This could potentially be the best alternative because there are almost no f1 WUMS here. I would suggest that the football fans that clearly have no F1 knowledge would be kindly asked to bugger off. They moan when we try to debate with them, it should be no different the other way round Thanks for reading, hope it wasn't too long! Any mis spellings are due to this very annoying iPod keyboard
Lots of sense in your post mate Lewis continues on his path to greatness Mclaren though have looked shabby, not good at all when the road car division is promoted on the back of F1 efficiency and sleekness Button disappointed a little, he could have forced things more, more pressure on the front two could have worked, and he should have been all over Alonso at the restarted after the SC came in, done what Lewis tried on Maldonado, Alonso would have yielded Button had a good chance and did not grab it
I do hope Massa is not blaming Hamilton for his actual crash in the tunnel. If Massa cannot realise that he is on the dirty side of the track and trying to take teh tunnel at 170mph on the marbles is a good idea, then he deserved to go into the wall. Hamilton had the racing line so it was up to Massa whether to hold it round the outside or fall in behind Hamilton. As for the hairpin, the first time I watched the reply I thougth Massa turned in early having seen Hamilton very late. Having watched the highlisghts show, it is clear Massa turned in early. Yes, it was a late lunge by Hamilton, but Schmacher did the same and Hamilton left him the room. Were they too keen to give a penalty to di resta (who onyl damaged himself not Alguesari) so they then had to give a penalty to Hamilton? I thought the days where minimal contact got you a penalty were gone to allow for some close racing? Obviuosly not. The Maldanado incident. Hamilton did the move on Schumacher earlier in the race, Scheuy managed to avoid him so the move was on. Again, Maldonado turned in earlier than he had during the rest of the race so clearly went to cover his line, Hamilton took to the kerbs to try and avoid him, but it wasn;t to be. Monaco is notoriously difficult for overtaking and contact is almost inevitable due to the tightness of the circuit. Even a clean pass into the chicane is not on as one driver always now takes to the escape road. No incident I saw in the race warranted a penalty. Not di Resta or Hamilton, neither were malicious or a deliberate attempt to push another driver off the track. Surely Kobayashi shoudl have had a penalty for his lunge on Sutil which did contribute to Sutil retiring? It was all a bit strange and I think the stewards got it wrong with the first incident as they made a rod for their own back too early and then ahd to be consistent afterwards
Allsaintchris, Thank you. A sensible, balanced post on the subject; there have been so few! I agree, the DiResta penalty precedent meant that Hamilton had to be penalised. The stewards had decided to be strict but it was all a bit 'Health and Safety' for my liking. Whatever happened to racing?
"I think the Hamilton/Massa at Loews' was Hal and half; a racing incident. But the tunnel was Massa's fault. He should really have backed off and let Hamilton have the position" again with the, you should all just move aside and let hamilton past, attitude. Have you seen the onboard footage and the pictures. You can see Lewis is clearly at fault in the hairpin collision. He went up the inside on the kerb and off the circuit so bang goes the Massa turning in early theory. Also Massa had the line off the Courtier into the tunnel but seems unable to get back on racing line. Being forced off (dangerous on Lewis part condsidering the numerous accidents caused by a wrong line in the tunnel over the weekend) or damage from the earlier collision? " Regarding Maldonado, I think Hamilton wasn't to blame to be honest" Not sure you are being honest in fairness, think you are clutching at straws to defend him here, reckless and entirely his own fault "And finally his comments. He had every right to say what he did, and I wish he started after Spa or Fuji 2008. It's about time F1 drivers were allowed to be as honest as he was. As far as the racism remark, I hope it makes the Fia just think about this. Their corruption is getting too obvious now; Sepp Blater would be proud of them No he doesnt have a right to accuse the stewards, including Alan McNish of racism. Again his comments are based on conjecture like your own corruption one which to try to portray as fact. " mainly from football fans that are winding us F1 fans up " im assuming that is a dig at me with an NUFC footballer as an avatar. Tell me how you think the reaction would be if it was Alonso? and I can assure you I have been watching and commenting on this sport a long time prior to 2007 when im assuming you took up interest in the sport. Are you also going to tar Lewis Hamilton F1 Legend (a worthwhile poster but also a greater presence on the NUFC board than I have ever been) and SaintsFTW (the worst of the wost WUMs) with the same brush? Allsaintschris - again im goign to point you in the direction of the combined hamilton monaco incidents thread and ask you to view the photo and watch the video and can you still tell me Massa tuned in early on lewis at the hairpin and can you tell me Lewis had the god-given right to the line into the tunnel?
A reasonable and balanced article on not606 about the Monaco race And of course someone has to come along with the usual hysteria to ruin it Are there not many other existing articles that you can get involved in?
No hysteria. Just countering the obvious bias driven half truths and opinionated insinuations on what is, in fact, a very unbalanced article and no amount of mutual backslapping between like minded Hamilton fans is going to change that.
Good quality of posts overall, from all sides of the discussion, up to and including Jacky's first post. Hamilton deserved a drive-through for the hairpin incident for consistency, even if it's a bit fussy for my tastes. He should have known, against Massa of all people, that his best bet was with a double Kers and DRS slingshot, rather than the hairpin. In his defence, having committed to the move, he was helpless when Massa took an exceptionally tight and slow line. And in fairness, Hamilton was for once consistent yesterday: when Schumi had him with the same move early in the race, he sensibly left enough room. I don't see what Hamilton is supposed to have done in the tunnel though. Massa was very slow and slightly off-line coming out of the previous corner. Hamilton got his left wheels onto the right extremities of the racing line, had much better traction, and kept his foot down. Massa had the choice between trying to go flat out with his left wheels on the marbles, in the hope that he could block Hamilton into the chicane and get the stewards to hand the position back, or tuck in behind Hamilton and use him to get past the slower cars in front. He took the first option, and he crashed out as a direct result.
Jacky Ickx The football fan remark was not against you cause I know you follow f1 a lot (606) but really the ones who cause trouble on the football forums. They know who they are The hairpin accident I think bow may have been too aggressive from Hamilton. I have seen it a few times and he did dive in a bit too early which wasn't really like him, which shows the frustration in his driving that built up over the weekend. But the Maldonado move was exactly the same as the Schumacher overtake, so it was a racing incident rather than anyones fault I think Just one question though Jacky. Why do you get really defensive when talking to a Hamilton fan? Why do you treat is as if we are all WUMS or fanboys? We are all for second chains on not606 but you have not changed one bit from 606. Your acting like those vegetarians or Christians that think anything outside there views are like a sin and they try to convert everyone to their way of thinking
Likewise Muggins, tambourine, juggling Jonah I think it's because they thought they had found a home for like minded ABH members, a refuge from 606 and it's smartarse LH and macca fans Unfortunately, this place has since decided to be an inclusive forum with proper moderation, which means smartarse LH post 2007 fanboys who just love defending him on public forums are hard to bully away since those early days of 'partisan' moderation And so they feel threatened
Overall a good quality of debate on this thread. I think Hamilton was at fault for the collision with Massa. Massa did turn in early, but he had every right to do so. He was ahead of Hamilton at the time and Hamilton should have backed off. He knew he was much quicker than Massa, so he should have waited for a more appropriate place to make the pass. The stewards, including an ex-driver felt it was necessary to give him a penalty and I completely agree. Di Resta did the same thing and got the same penalty. Anyone who calls the Hamilton-Massa collision a "racing incident" should equally be defending Di Resta. In fact, Di Resta acknowledged the fact that he was wrong. As for the tunnel incident, Hamilton had already damaged Massa's car and so its debatable as to what extent Hamilton was to blame. Hamilton saw the gap, fairly made his move which effectively put Massa onto the marbles. Not sure if Massa tried to back off, but the marbles wouldve given him no grip and an imminent crash. Overall the moment in the tunnel I would call a racing incident.
He had no chance to pull off the overtake on Massa, his steering wheel was at full lock the whole way round with Massa carrying him along, being the victim while on the racing line. It's Lewis fault because Massa didn't have to do anything, he had the right to choose his line because he was leading into the corner, and he does not have to jump out of the way just because Lewis wants to trade paint. With Maldonado'd crash, what did you want him to do? Carry on and just go into the tyre wall? just so Lewis can barge through and get an advantage? You heard it from the commentators before.... At that certain point towards the corner they look for the breaking zone and apex, not their mirrors. Lewis again wanted to trade paint and he pritty much did at that point and couldn't give a damn. What does he expect?? of course Maldonado is going to turn right to hit the apex, why was it so hard not to see beforehand.... I'm more upset for Maldonado than angry at Lewis, since he got screwed over by an upset individual who was able to have his rear wing fixed while the red flag was being waved.
I do not adopt an attitude that all Hamilton fans are WUMs but I treat any poster that seems to be posting to create confrontation as so, you can understand this if you saw the disgraceful conduct of DeVries, Prime Minister Cameron and especially SaintsFTW over the past few days. I thought you referring to me as a football fan on the wind up was as such and I recognise I was wrong now and you have my apologies.
I love Hamilton's fighting spirit, he gives this sport a special glance (as does Kobayashi btw.). But combined with frustration and a narrow streetrace, sometimes things go wrong. I feel sorry for Maldinado and Massa...'nough said
I don't feel sorry for Massa because part of his job was to stop Lewis advancing by any means necessary. Maldonado, on the other hand, yes but he was naive.
