Good topic here, and I'll wager in. I agree with what Supers has said. We need to keep the momentum going as much as possible... How, based on the last 4 years results? Sneak into the top half of the table perhaps (we were only 2/3 points off)? Better on-pitch performances may be a popular measuring stick here... and in a year or two time a flirtation in the latter stages of the cup competitions, Premier League stability and... Europe? We'll see... I'm half shocked that only Norwich and Swansea are debt free in the Premier league... Highly commendable indeed, and I would like some incentive for all clubs to be and remain debt free... but that can't be money or it'll defeat the point... but what exactly I haven't got any ideas at the moment... That would be a great idea... Can't imagine the top teams agreeing to that, but the other 14/15 teams would... also perhaps the runner-up gets Europa League football (i.e. 5th place)? Was that part of the proposal?
It simply isn't true to say that Norwich City couldn't win the Premier League. Yes, the odds are stacked against us, but so they were against e.g. Wolfsburg when they won the Bundesliga a few year ago and played in the Champions League the following year. The wonderful thing about football is that unheralded teams CAN defy the odds and attain the "unattainable". Wherever the club happens to be at any given time, the crucial thing in my opinion is maintaining the ambition to go further, get better and try your best to win something. Being a mid-table side (in any division) is fine as long as you haven't settled for that as your long term aim and lost any ambition to advance further. Once you appear to have no further ambition you will lose your fans wherever you are in the league (look at the flak Arsenal get from some of their fans and the media despite a top four finish and qualifying for the Champions League SIXTEEN years on the trot).
i suggested the play offs between 4th and 7th a couple of years ago. i see that idea as having legs but never seen it proposed by anyone else, until now! robbie, you are of course right that it's not impossible for norwich to win the premier league but realistically, the chance of it happening (without selling out and being owned by a billionaire) is remote to say the least. there's about as much chance of lowestoft town winning the fa cup next season - that's how unlikely it is! but then bradford nearly won the league cup... but cup football is a different beast to a league system where the cream always rises to the top. although a long shot, it is certainly more realistic to eye up the fourth champions league spot. newcastle almost got there the other year - but then even compared to newcastle's capacity and wage structure, we are well adrift. shows how well we did to finish above them this season. oh, and i think arsenal get flak from sections of their fan base, not because they keep finishing in the top four, but because the manager doesn't spend big money (when they have huge money behind the scenes) and they keep bottling every competition they enter. qualification 16 years on the trot is stunning, but they haven't achieved even a tenth of the success they ought to on the back of that.
Yes, of course it's a remote chance. But it is real, and that reality makes it possible for both players and fans to dream. The margins between success and failure are often incredibly small, and a team which nobody gives a chance to CAN do it. Yes, it is more realistic to eye 4th spot, but that is only to say the odds are a bit shorter than on finishing in top spot. If 4th place is at all a realistic long term aim for us, so is 1st place.
honestly, i don't think 1st place is attainable at all as things currently stand. if teams like arsenal can't even get close to challenging, let alone winning the league, then how can a smaller club with less resources? the league is broken and has been for some time because of the monopoly of the big clubs. as far as i'm concerned, the only way norwich could ever win the premier league is if a) a european super league is set up or b) sky pull the plug, nobody else comes in with financial wealth to keep it going and many big clubs go to the wall leaving all the well run clubs. in its current format, norwich cannot and will not win the division, even if mathematically there is the tiniest possibility - that possibility is too small to even be of worth.
Am I missing something? What possible argument is there that getting relegated and bouncing back is better than just staying up in the first place?!?
You're not going to believe this Supers, but Adrian Durham suggested this a couple of weeks ago ! ....
Oh good we need to keep in the big league. It maybe messy, it maybe unpleasant, but it's very important Superman raises some good points about slowly increasing the playing budget, ground capacity and ground facilities and other infrastructure like the training ground and academy I think we have a great platform to build on, and are a few years behind your sunderlands and stokes that have been in the top league for longer and have made such improvements and increased their playing budgets but are probably now hiting that ceiling that may cause fan frustration
I agree that right now it's not possible, but I don't think it is definitely impossible in 20-25 years. Look at Tottenham, who were a similar size club to us in the 80s. They have gates of c.35,000 (achievable for us) they spent the ten years from 96 to 2005 in similar finishing positions to us now. Patience and continuity of management have allowed them to become a regular top four challenger in the last five years. I can see them, with more astute signings, challenging for the title in five years or so if they get it right. That gives us an idea of the timeframe it could take, it emphasises the relative uniqueness (but not impossibility) of that sort of climb, but it also demonstrates the diligence and care required. FFP means a rich benefactor certainly won't be the way we could do it. The top clubs have given a very good go at maintaining the status quo. Unless FFP is abandoned (and I think it could well be challenged under EU law) it is going to be even harder than Spurs have found it. Realistically, though, it is highly unlikely. If we could challenge for a trophy every now and again, make a relatively successful European campaign n the odd occasion and generally play good football, I will be content. There is no way that fans of big clubs can understand the elation of achieving against all odds, so I'll know that one League cup win will be more exhilarating than a Man U fan thinking "oh another Premier League title".
spurs, in around 2006, spent an obscene amount of money on club infrastructure based around youth purchase and youth development, the kind of amounts that our club spend annually on the first team! comparisons with tottenham hotspur are as unrealistic as those with chelsea in many ways. spurs have spent enormous amounts on player purchases in the past ten years and are still hitting a ceiling themselves. they have spent £188m on transfers since 2009. we cannot compete with them unless we have a capacity of 35k+ and a benefactor with more finance than delia and michael - premier league money alone would not enable us to compete to that kind of level. when michael laudrup announced the other day it would cost £200m to push swansea to the 'next level', he was not being fanciful - if anything he was possibly being conservative in my opinion.
Interesting discussion this, but as one who has been a City fan since their first promotion to the top tier in 1972, the impossible is still possible. The City team of the early 1990s wasn't composed of WCT as individual players, but as a team they achieved that magical 'synergy' where the performance of the team excels the individuals making it up. This allowed them to lead the league for much of the season before finally finishing third and it is still the way forward, IMO. WBA managed that in the first half of last season but couldn't sustain it. It needs the right blend of players and depth to sustain it, but it is possible!
With all due respect, Supers, I think you've missed my point. The point was Tottenham were in a similar position as we are now 10-15 years earlier than the stats you are posting. I was quite clearly referring to pre-2006. Of course, each step requires substantial financial investment - but that comes with expanded gates and an expanded brand, not just rich benefactors (which may well be ruled out anyway). That investment could be available after that period of time, as it has been for Spurs. I don't disagree that it is highly unlikely, but I do disagree that Tottenham have hit their ceiling - it is far too early to say. I would also emphasise that Tottenham have crowds of fewer than 35k - it is possible. Highly unlikely, but possible.
