Its an odd thought but I always wondered what everyone thinks the premiership should look like, depending on eras people grew up in people would have different views on what teams they think are premiership teams and which teams currently are doing very well for themselves its a bit of an odd idea but what is everyones definitive 20 teams and in what order? Without bias please! Heres mine to give you an idea of what I'm thinking of. Man United Chelsea Liverpool Arsenal Man City Aston Villa Tottenham Everton Bolton Fulham Newcastle Blackburn Stoke Saints West Ham Pompey Charlton Middlesborough West Brom Crystal Palace Yours? (Im 15 by the way)
West Brom is arguble, they are a yo-yo club in the prem, and not sure about others near the bottom, but overall it's a good shout.
I question: fulham blackburn, bolton and charlton Instead: Leeds, Lecister, ...... so tired to think of others
It depends on your age really, I wasn't really aware of leeds being a current big club just a "Sleeping giant" as I was growing up, It was close between Leicester and palace for me
Liverpool Everton Manchester Utd Arsenal Chelsea Tottenham Aston Villa Newcastle Middlesborough Leicester Southampton Nottingham Forest Derby County Sunderland Norwich Man City Sheffield Wednesday Leeds Wolves Ipswich
Arsenal Liverpool Manchester United Tottenham Leeds Chelsea Newcastle Aston Villa Everton Manchester City Sunderland Bolton Southampton West Ham QPR Sheffield Wednesday Nottingham Forest Middlesbrough Leicester Wimbledon Interesting idea..thanks. Some teams just never sound Premier League to me. Not so certain of order. I'm sixty by the way
Interesting point.........You are right about generations. The clubs that are in the league today are not the same as clubs between 30/35 years ago including of course Saints and Man utd. Not too many years before that Liverpool. To be honest there is probably may be 15 clubs who can probably say they are true premier clubs. What makes a true premier club for me is a club that has held its status as a premier league or 1st division team for the bulk of 25 years or so. Now here my memory lets me down but I will have a go. As for order of merit, I think that is in the eye of the beholder, so will not attempt to put any order of merit into the equation. To be honest some of the bottom five just scrape in and you could probably put any number of other teams in their place. Coventry, Leicester, Crystal palace, Nottingham forest or even Charlton or Stoke. Fulham just about scrapes in. Saints are in there having a longer History in the recent top flight. Pompey are not in there despite their recent run as it wasn't long enough. If you were to consider Pompey you would have to also look look at teams such as PNE, Huddersfield and some of the other borderline clubs. Man United Chelsea Liverpool Arsenal Man City Aston Villa Tottenham Everton Bolton Fulham Newcastle Blackburn Saints West Ham Middlesborough Leeds Burnley Sheffield United (It could just as easily have been Wednesday) QPR Derby
I don't care as long as Saints get there. As a point though, I was brought up in footballing terms in the 70's and 80's, so although now they struggle, teams like Coventry were always there, and teams like Sheff Weds need to be considered too. It's what makes this game so wonderful.
I agree with Beddytare but replace Middlesborough with Pompey. I've never considered Middlesborough a big club, don't really know why! However, Pompey just get in there.... Interesting point though from Beddy that as soon as clubs like Pompey make it in, you have to look at PNE etc. Great thread to keep the mind going in close season
Don't know who should be there exactly, but clubs who cannot get over 30000 don't deserve to be, so goodbye teams like Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan and Fulham. Hello Leeds, Derby, Leicester And Notts Forrest (plus lets be honest, the North West is overepresented, the East Midlands underepresented).
Everton are one of the longest serving teams of top flight football without relegation - they have to be fairly high up. Think you should include Sunderland in the list - if you base it on league titles they are about 7th in the list, Man Utd 19, Liverpool 18, Arsenal 13,...........Sunderland 6 top flight titles. if you are looking for league points since premiership started in 1992 -top 20 teams and pts 1.Man U 1574 2.Arsenal 1379 3.Chelsea 1338 4.Liverpool 1282 5.Villa 1051 6.Spurs 1017 7.Everton 978 8.Newcastle 952 9.Blackburn 939 10.West Ham 764 11.Man City 695 12.Leeds 692 13.Middlesborough 632 14.Saints 587 15.Bolton 539 16.Fulham 459 17.Coventry 409 18.Sunderland 395 19.Sheff Wed 392 20.Wimbledon 391 Good to see Saints 14th in league but will be overtaken by Bolton next year, maybe
For me, and my era Man Utd Arsenal Chelsea Liverpool Villa Leeds Tottenham Everton Newcastle Man City Fulham West Ham Bolton Blackburn Middlesborough Southampton Sunderland Coventry Portsmouth Leicester
Beddy This is a fascinating thread but I wanted to pick up your point about which other times you would have to consider if you chose Portsmouth. You mention Huddersfield and PNE. Both these teams have had an illustrious past. Huddersfield were invincible in the 20's / 30's when Hubert Chapman was their manager but I think PNE are a very good shout too. They were pretty formidable in the 50's with the late, great Tom Finney but in the 1880's they were actually the first "big " club and set the standards that everyone had to meet. They were ultimately brought down by a financial scandal and their chairman eventually fled to South Africa because the corruption caused such a sensation at the time. This was one of the first, big scandals in football and happened at the time football clubs started to employ players on a quasi-professional basis despite the then current FA rules. It is fascinating how clubs get perceived as "Premiership" quality. There can be no doubts about many of the big names (even if some of the younger contributors here have neglected to include Leeds United!) but I think the likes of Sunderland would need to be in the list at te expense of Middlesborough. This is an amusing exercise. Nice to see QPR listed - they were second only to Liverpool when I started to follow football and had a terrific team with the likes of Stan Bowles, Gerry Francis, Phil parkes, etc, etc. I can see why they would be included. Teams like Derby would also have to get a shout for what they achieved under Clough although Forest should get the nod in some respects as he achieved more there. I can also appreciate why clubs with limited support like Fulham, Wigan and Boro might get struck through as they don't have a great deal of heritage either although I think a club like Blackburn Rovers had a pedigree in the 1880's that offers a strong case albeit it was the now defunct Blackburn Olympic who became the first working class team to win the FA cup. (I believe Rovers won in a few years later.) Teams like Bolton , Blackpool and Stoke City (Sir Stnaley Matthews, etc) could be considered. Funnily enough, I was talking to my Dad about Luton Town this weekend and he said that they were a great team in the 1950's - they aren't even in the top four divisions now! (Losing cup finalist to Forest in 59.) As has been pointed out, the NW would have a very large bias but I think this is a fair reflection of the history of the game as this part of England was instrumental in the games origins and has always seemed to dominate the sport. If you weighted the Prem to geographical locations, the results would be very perculiar ! The South of England would be really intriguing if you excluded London. Obviously the two principal clubs would be Southampton and Portsmouth but Reading, Brighton and Bristol City have all enjoyed top flight status too. In modern times, Southampton have enjoyed a longer tenure in the top flight than Portsmouth although I would have to stick to my earlier comment that they are a bigger club than us and have a stronger heritage albeit Saints were pretty dominant in the early 1900's. Would there be room for 2 South coast clubs in an "idealised" premiership? I'm not convinced although both Saints and Pompey would have a beter shout than the likes of Wigan, Fulham, Boro, Coventry and Leicester in my opinion. Odd to see Ipswich and Norwich not being seriously conisdered - laughable if anyone else can remeber Sir Bobby Robson's exceptional side of the late 70's which produced some of the most beautiful football ever played in England.
Wisescummer In that case, where would you have placed Saints a couple of years ago when Portliveet's dire squad was struggly to attract 14000 to home games?
The all-time top 20 is pretty much how I remember it, though Stoke have now become a proper Premiership club in my eyes. Maybe replace Wimbledon with them.
Some very interesting points Ian.................Especially in your comparison to say Saints and Pompey. I based my thoughts really trying to cast my mind back and was looking for teams that were in the top league for consist ant periods of time probably from the mid eighties on. If you want to really go into the history and traditions of football you would have to actually look at a few rather surprising clubs. Clubs you would not even perhaps give a second glance to in today's offering of top clubs. Such as Northampton town, came up through the leagues from the old 4 in successive seasons winning or runners up in successive seasons including winning the div 1 title. Only to go straight down again......... straight back to div 4. Another team I seem to remember is Notts County.........Didn't they too do something similar? you mention Stoke city.......do they not still have the record of fielding the oldest player in the football league and wasn't that player Sir Stan at 53? I have to say over the years I have had the privilege to see most of the legends and in my youth you associated a player with the team. As soon as you go down that road you do bring into the equation of teams like, PNE, Blackpool, Fulham, Pompey and Arsenal, as well as a host of others.
