Was going to say that. And the following. I think our singers were dotted around in pockets, and from what I could see were trying to get things going, but it's hard to reach the critical mass of volume you need to sweep the rest along, when there are 'buffer areas' of passive specatators between these pockets. I was wondering how Palace had managed to get that core right in the centre behind the goal. They were impressive. Was it done with the help of the club, or clever organisation on behalf of the fans themselves? I found the acoustics of the place made it difficult to hear anything coming from our own end. I sat on the sunny bend (107). Couldn't hear anything from the upper decks- but I'm sure it was there. We never got everyone singing the same thing at once. Palace did three or four times, and it was impressive. Credit to them.
This all adds credence to the fact that we should have a designated singing area in one part of the ground where perhaps a more earthy atmosphere would be tolerated by all around
Probably because only 17000 of them were Watford fans and the rest were loaned from Udinese and didn't know the songs so couldn't chant or sing in English.
The commentator mentioned how quiet both fans were. Not much going on and at 0-0 probably 2 nervous sets of fans. Only seemed to get an atmosphere when Palace scored.
Okay, firstly, Palace saved a block behind the goal for their regular singers. Great idea, we should have done the same. Secondly, Palace are, along with probably Leeds, the best away support there is, and they're very vocal at home too. Thirdly, our 34000 was made up of maybe 15000 who go to the vic (most of them don't stand/chant/sing) and 20000 who rarely go to games, some of them not even Watford fans but along for the ride. The bloke behind me was fab. at one point he stood up and turned to the crowd behind him. he said "it's yellow, and it's army, it's not bloody difficult!". They were silent for most of the match, telling people to sit down when they stood for corners or anything else of interest. Who are these people who just want to sit there and watch, as if they were in the theatre! I have no idea..i just know i would rather have had 15,000 fans who wanted to get behind the team than the 'support' we showed yesterday. Yorkie is right. It's a team effort, and the team need to know that the fans are the 12th man, and behind them, regardless of whether they are playing well or not. After all, we sing the names of players regularly, whether they are having a good game or not...Vydra being a prime example. Over the last few months, when he's had a shot at goal, the fans have sung his chant to encourage him...if we can do that for players, why on earth can't we do it for the team during a match of such vital importance. Nothing disappointed me more yesterday than the fans performance..and i use the term 'fans' very loosely!
H, I normally agree with most of the things you post but not sure how we "Fans" could have done much more ? the team were a bit flat but I don't think we should be faced with the blame for that ? You're right way over half of the people were there for the ride but what is the other option having 34,000 seats with 12,000 supporters in ? of the 12,000 home supporters at Vicarage Rd how many sing on a regular basis anyway ? The other thing, a bit of subject, is that when I rang up for my tickets they struggled to get three together, not sure how they would have organised for all the singers together ? I know you're going to say Palace did it and I'd be interested to know how. Also does anyone know where the catergory one seats were ? I had catergory two and was about five rows from the back !!
Hi Ethel Yep, i think to a degree we are to blame for the flatness on the pitch. Zola has been saying that the '12th man' has made a huge difference. If we had tried to lift the team, if at any moment there had been some sort of enthusiasm from the rather lackluster crowd, who knows what might have happened. To be honest, yes. I think that 12-15,000 people, all singing and encouraging their team would have far more effect than the crowd we had on Monday. I know there were a lot of people trying, but there were also a lot of people telling others to sit down, to be more quiet!! It was completely odd and alien! I completely agree with you about the farce that was the ticket selling. i rang on the first morning, it took me 4 hours and i couldn't get my group together unless i wanted to sit in the gods, which i didn't. So we all sat separately at or near the front, 12 of us, in groups of 2 with one group of 4. Interestingly, we were category 3 and i know a couple of rows behind us were category 2, and to be honest, their seats were no better or worse than ours. I don't know how palace arranged for their group to all be together, maybe they're known to the club? Not sure...but it definitely would have been a better atmosphere if we'd found a way to get the crowd singing, and if the atmosphere is better, and less flat, it seems to me that has to help what happens on the pitch.
From the Wobby site GiftonNoelWilliams says... 1:48pm Wed 29 May 13 Posted this on another thread but figured i would post it here as well so people read it: Fair play to the players for their messages, I really do want the vast majority of them to stay. However I do not understand how they can be thanking the fans after our performance at Wembley. It was so quiet. All i could hear were palace fans. I was sitting behind the goal in the lower tier and was regularly asked to sit down by so called fans. If you want to sit with a rug on your knees sipping tea why the hell did you buy tickets in the area behind the goal. Surely everyone knows that this is the "singing area". Not for our fans apparently. It felt like I was the only person who actually felt like it was my duty to make as much noise as possible to encourage the team. To be the 12 man. I cant help but think the fact that the players could only hear palace fans had a bearing on our abject performance. I was embarrassed to be a Watford fan: how could people not sing the songs?? Most of them don't even contain any swear words so this couldn't have been the problem. I find it completely baffling and really wish I could support a team with real fans, however as any true fan knows it is impossible to change allegiance after the age of about 12. Palace deserved to win because of their fans. Our fans don't even deserve to watch league football. They always say the the owners, managers and players change but the one constant in any club is the fans: its the fans that make the club. Well, we must be one of the worst clubs in the country by that measure. What has happened in the last 14 years? I was at the 99 wembley final sitting in the posh seats with my parents really wishing i was sitting behind the goal with the noisy fans who did not stop singing. I was only 13 so probably wouldn't have been able to see very much but who cares. I didnt see the nicky wright goal cos people were standing around me for the corner but that has not diminished my memories of the game. I was also at the Cardiff final and thought the atmosphere could have been better, but god I wish we had made as much noise on Monday as we did at Cardiff. It seems to be a steady decline in atmosphere. Would be interested to hear why people think this is happening? I live in Devon now so only go to around 5 games a season, most of which are away games because the atmosphere is so much better.â
Can't believe that someone would want to support a different team because the bloke he's sitting next to doesn't sing ?? I did my bit singing on the terraces ( yes I'm that old ) and will still join in given half a chance but am not going to support Leeds just because their signing / support is better ? OUR club is a small club and it follows that even if we have the same percentage of "singers" as a big club we are not going to make as much noise, think perhaps we should stop beating ourselves up about it and get behind the team which isn't necessarily by making a lot of noise but also being there when we can on a cold Tuesday night for a carling cup game. Bring on next season !! I can't wait.
I think you might be missing my point EthelH. I too struggle when I come to the Vic. full of positive feeling etc after a 200 mile drive to feel the atmosphere is often flat. Away is generally a lot more lively due in part to the motivation that makes people travel and get behind their team... shame but it is true. Deeney is always egging the crowd to get behind the team.... and at the vic at the Leicester game the Rous responded to his exhortations. Clearly the players feel it. The announcer at the Vic. tries to get the crowd going.... and I remember Aidy trying too to. I think we have an important part to pay... If we want it.
The answer is designating a cheerleading area. We have a lot of more reserved folk but how about the club designating a few core areas to concentrate support leaders? The atmosphere would then spread from these and for those who want silence build em a box like for sad smokers at airports......
The Palace fans who were chanting in the black shirts behind the goal are called the Holmesdale Fanatics Ultras. They worked with the club to get a block of tickets behind the goal. I think in total they got about 150, and basically sold them to those who were part of the group through either their Facebook page or website. They sold out quickly, and told anyone else who wanted to sing to sit near them. At the end of the day Palace are one of the best set of supporters in terms of vocally supporting their team so I'm not surprised they outsung us. The Holmesdale lot normally get a fairly decent atmosphere going at Selhurst Park as well. How great would it be if we could something like this going with Watford? Some of our younger fans tried with the Yellow Order but that's seem to have since fallen apart. There are a number of reasons why Palace were louder. Most of the game it looked like it would be inevitable before they would score, and a lacklustre performance on the pitch meant that our fans were lacklustre in supporting them. Secondly, our fans are always quiet at Vicarage Road, so add in an extra 20,000 who very rarely attend and you're always going to get a flat atmosphere. Thirdly, with their far superior organisation Palace were always going to outsing us. And last of all, I dont think we were that bad! I was sat in the top tier on the left of most Watford fans and quite a few of us were getting a decent atmosphere going at times. But yes, I agree, that was the first time I had ever had to sit down at a corner because the people behind weren't standing!
Agreed.... they should and must do it.... of course now too late for next year I was on the side at the back and we couldn't hear the behind the goal supporters very much... I guess part of it was the acoustics...
The only answer is to designate singing areas. if someone wants to pay £400 a year for a ticket and sit there quietly with the occasional clap I don't think it makes them any less of a supporter than the ones who sing throughout the game. Part of the problem of course is the changes since grounds went all seater - in the old days you could gravitate towards where the noise was if that was your bag so they really ned to find a way of letting those who want to sing sit togther. I thought the poster in the Wobby was a bit harsh to be honest - people who pay good money to go to games don't deserve top flight matches becasue they want to have a cup of tea rather than jump up and down all match? Behave!
