OT - Martinez to Everton

Martinez has confirmed he wants to leave Wigan and Everton have made an approach for his services (on SSN now).

I think he'll be a good appointment for them, would have liked him here if I'm honest.

 

I really don't get the hype with Martinez...

 

He's kept up the team with the weakest squad and smallest budget for four out of his five seasons in charge whilst playing attractive football.

He's also won a trophy, the FA Cup which automatically makes him more successful then Moyes and a bucket load of other Premier League managers, football for me is about entertainment and winning trophies. He's done both in only 5 years with Wigan.

 

Looked likely to happen from the minute Moyes left Everton. Be interesting to see how he gets on. The jury is still out on him of course, many thinking people over-egg the Wigan pudding - pointing to the fact they battled relegation year on year before succumbing. Personally I think its all relative, and survival was success for them a lot of those years. Relegation is obviously a failure but they did have quite a few injuries at key times. Like ourselves, that hurts small squads. I suspect he'll do well with Everton.

 

1. Wigan Doon't play that great football
2. Wigan definitely didt have the weakest squad in the premier league over those seasons
3. They only played good for the last 10 games of the season
4. FA cup and relegation, I'd take survival
5. Look what managers like Curbishley did with Charlton, even fat Sam with Bolton
6. Wigan have taken some absolute pastings (defoe scored 5 against them in one game)

 

But the trend of playing **** at the start of the season and only just surviving due to late surges HAS to have something to do with him.

Different players have come in and out of the club, so the mentality around the club and the way the team can't start the season must be something to do with the manager.

It's the same as Moyes and all his late starts with Everton.

If trends occur in a teams seasons, then the manager has to be looked at.

But I suppose Everton will be used to late starts, so maybe Martinez coming in will be like nothing new.

 

1. They clearly do play good football, Martinez is renowned for producing teams that play a passing game (Swansea & Wigan). Did you not watch them completely out play City in the final???

2. Wigan's squad is always one of the three weakest in the league, meaning success for them is staying up.

3. You're wrong, yes they play better towards the back end of the season, but it just proves his teams can handle high pressure environments. It's like saying Moyes' teams don't start playing until Christmas as they are traditionally slow starters.

4. For Wigan a cup win is more important, because they will almost certainly not win another major trophy for the next 30-40 years. In essence they were punching above their weight purely by being in the premier league.

5. Curbishley left Charlton with an incredibly weak and ageing squad and he knew that, hence he left and they went down. Fat Sam had massive wage budgets at Bolton even if he won't admit it. Campo, Okocha, Djorkaeff, Anelka, Stelios etc were hardly being paid peanuts and again the football was dismal to watch.

6. Name me a manager that hasn't taken pastings??? Even Utd lost 6-1 at home to City which is the equivalent of Wigan losing 15-0 away.

 

The playing great football all the time is a bit of a myth. I have watched them be utter turd this season/previous seasons and have spells in games where they just hit aimless balls upfield (Arsenal was a case in point). Generally though his teams do try to pass the ball and retain possession. Certainly when they can get their better players on the pitch anyway. Its just wrong to suggest no matter how the game is going or what their form is like they still try to play lovely football. Like all teams they look strangers when things go bad.

I don't think they always have the weakest squad in the league (certainly not this season on paper). They do have a squad though where you think "a few injuries and they'll be hovering around the ****". They weren't that good in the last 10 games this season to be honest. Only took 12 points out of a possible 30, main reason they went down. He never quite managed to sort out balancing their approach to the season. They started well this season for the first time ever, ended up being toilet.

We'll find a lot out about Martinez if he does sign on at Everton. You couldn't say with any certainty at this stage how a good a manager he is. I just have a feeling he'll do better with better players. Quite a stiff task he'd be taking on at Everton. They may not have been the prettiest team to watch under Moyes, but they were very consistent. If he bombs out of the top 8, he'll be regarded as a failure in modern thinking (personally I think that is bollocks)

 

Agreed, as you say Everton were quite direct at times under Moyes and Martinez will try and evolve their style of play. He'll need 3 years there minimum for a fair crack at the job and they could drop to 12th/13th in his first season, but it should be understood that he'll need time to impose his style so a slow/slightly poor first season should be understood/expected.

 

One things certain - with all the uncertainty at the top table, the timing is absolutely right for a 'wannabe' club like Newcastle to get it right. Hammer blow that we stuck with Pardew, but if we can just get those 3+ signings in that we desperately need, we may have a shot at 5th again....

Please pin this post so we can all laugh heartily when we start the season with an even smaller squad, no decent players and having lost Krul on the last day of the transfer window.

 

We should pin it in case Pardew gets back to the greatness of his first season and gets us/and him back on track. The sales of humble pie in Newcastle will be astronomical .

 

Do you really see it, given his record is - statistically - the worst of any Prem manager? I mean, he IS here and that's that, we have to get behind him, but is it really likely he's turning this around? Christ, if we get beat in the FIRST game he'll be under pressure!

 

100% this. It's exactly why he shouldn't be in charge. From the moment he loses his first game the fans will be baying for blood and that's not good.

 

Fair shout, but Wigan take a lot

Anyway I am not saying the guy is crap just very unproven and I wouldn't want him at Newcastle.... Much better to get a young British manager currently managing Exeter......

 

That is the one concern I have with giving time. The board might be patient but that doesn't mean the fans will. Indeed even if we start the season well and the lost a couple, I could see them turning. I have to say I think we're a bit fickle when it comes to adversity, we want it to always be roses and have been spolit by the KK and Bobby who barely put a foot wrong. When Bobby had a particularly slow start that season, some turned and unfortunately Fat Fred listened to that minority.

I think there is as much chance of success as failure based on his reign with us. He had a good half season, an outstanding first full season, and a shockingly bad 2nd full season. On that basis the jury is out.

 

Anyone can win the FA Cup, it is a lottery/fate etc whatever you want to call it. Winning a cup isn't the mark to judge a team or a manager by. For instance, look at the last time we won the FA Cup, we were flying in the First Division playing football only rivalled by Brazil at the time.

Martinez, has actually been the poorest of Wigan managers during their stint in the Premier League. Pretty football means **** all.

 

All of their ties were away from home, including the 3-0 defeat of Everton, they then went on to out play City in the final. How is that luck???

 

I know what you mean, there are plenty of occasions down the years where not so great managers have won a cup. It is not a pointer to your general management ability as a rule. It is still a great achievement in isolation by players and management though.

His record in the PL is pretty unusual for all the hype that surrounds him. They have actually regressed overall under his management. 18th this year, 15th the year before, 16th the year before that, 16th the year before that. When you throw in some of the defeats his tenure has seen (was it 9-1 and 8-0 in his first year?) It makes Bruce and Jewell look very good in comparison to be honest.

We'll find out soon enough because Everton look his likely destination and he'll be walking into a well oiled set up with quality players and finances (despite what some may think) that should ensure relative success. Can you imagine if he throws in a shocker of a season first up and flirts wiith relegation or dips lower than mid table? The modern way will mean he is collecting his P45 with a career to rebuild.

 

He had big defeats, but has also beat Man Utd, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal (twice). Smashed us 4-0 last year, we've only beaten them at the DW once in five seasons under his tenure. His teams play to attack so are bound to suffer heavy defeats now and then, but also help achieve results against the big teams rather than shutting up shop against them with 11 behind to the ball to achieve a "respectable" 1-0/2-0 defeat and not tarnish your reputation as a manager too much.

Quite brave really, although this is partly due to low expectations at Wigan meaning less pressure which enables him to be so bold.

 

Do Greggs sell humble pies?