I agree LFF that stats can be misleading. I just wanted to use them to defend my belief that we haven't "played poorly for the last 6 games", or if we have played poorly, that we still created more shots than the opposition. We don't tend to be a team that shoots from distance, so something must be right. It may well be that they aren't good enough chances, but chances they are.
I remember at the start of the season people saying our last half dozen games would be our easiest and they should have been. But we didn't play well enough to even get in a winning position. I can never find a statistic fro how many clear cut chances were created but that would tell a more interesting story than shots. We may have created more shots but despite our presumably greater time in possession we didn't create enough good chances, that's all I'm saying really.
Look back at the barce v bayern stats i think barce had more possesion and more shots in both the game but lost 7-0 on agg. Stats are wondeful but sometimes don't tell a true story.
Fair shout Kitch and I have said all through this that stats can be misleading. I was just using them to say that we must have created something because of the number of shots and that we hadn't been poor. By the way: first leg Bayern had 14 shots to Barca's 4 and in the second leg, Barca had 15 shots to Bayern's 8, so in one of those games, yes they were misleading.
Yeah i just double checked and your right it was just something i remebered and should of double checked before posting. Barce were dominant in posession in both games though.
Hahaha, I think part of the reason I see things differently to you is I hate possession for the sake of possession so that could be distorting my perception of our recent performances and our favourite player Davis. Whereas I think you see controlling possession as good football even if the team isn't scoring which I can understand intellectually but that sort of football pisses me off which makes it poor football in my eyes.
I have to agree though i am more than happy with the way we have approached games under MP and would much rather see us play the way we are than resort to long ball style to get results. My worry is that if we continue next season the way we finished this season will dominant performances alone be enough for NC.
I think you have unearthed the differences. So we may not have played poorly, just a style you don't like? For the record, I don't like possession for possession's sake, however I'd rather have that than a West Ham or Stoke hoof, no matter how effective it is.
Yes, but your comment about those games does apply to one of the legs; Barca had more shots and lost 3-0.
Yes, I agree, we must start scoring more goals again or we may have a slow start and NC would not like that.
If we are going to move on to the next level Surely the debate shouldnt about wheter we "play well" or "play poorly" its about whether we win games, you cannot move up the league without winning games. Not that I want us to play hoof ball and still win, I dont, but playing well is only the start of it. What MP needs to show is that he can produce a team that wins. I am not yet convinced that he has shown this. We did enough to survive, I'm not knocking that it was important, but we need to learn how to win ugly, what use is it beating City, Chelsea, etc if we keep playing well but dropping points against the QPR's, Sunderlands, Stokes etc (particuarly at home). NA had us winning those games, If MP can get the formulae to do that and still take points against the big boys we will move up a level, other wise next season is another mid table year at best. For me, despite an encouraging start MP still has to prove himself the right man to take us on.
We beat QPR, drew with Stoke and lost to Sunderland under NA, but I take your point. Yes, we need to be winning more games. I hope that the right signings will see us start doing that more by playing the way we have. Winning ugly for me, is only about the days when the passing and creativity goes astray. It's not a style, it's something top teams can do when they don't perform well. I'd rather we concentrate on turning those performances into wins. How do you practice winning ugly?
We need to work on our dead balls. We could do with scoring a few more goals from corners and free kicks.
Another thing that needs to be remembered is that Pochettino had no experience of the Premier League's variety of footballing styles until he came here. Maybe this is part of the reason we have struggled against the less fluent footballing sides and played better (not always winning I'll agree) against the Spurs, Swansea, Chelsea and Man United sides since he arrived. Maybe now he has seen just about all the Prem has to offer he'll have a better game plan for all the different syles and come up with better ways to break down the Stoke and West Ham type defences.
An interesting debate.......However do you not think the last 6-8 games has highlighted our weakness. Namely remaining cool while defending or when about to shoot. That little bit of quality of placing the ball perhaps as opposed to blast and hope? Making sure the ball is going to the target area rather hoping someone will pick it up? Whether that is experience or the quality of the player I do not know or possibly both!!
This is all a bit premature in my opinion. We have Nigel's team adapting mid-season to how Mauricio wants them to play. Right from the start they did it quite well, but as teams were able to look at our performances, they began to work out what they could do to counteract it. This is why second seasons are often worse than the first, of course. Nowadays, the general use of the DVD means that fine details can be worked out. This, I believe, is one of the reasons why the last 6 games weren't as successful as the previous games. It wasn't that Saints were playing badly, in my opinion [although QPR and WBA were a bit down on our standards], it was that teams had worked how to play against the tactic. Does that mean Pochettino is a busted flush..? No, it means that we don't play his way well enough yet and we aren't good enough yet, either as a team or as individuals. When Saints have sufficient quality in to be top 6 or 4 and we're halfway through a season lounging around midtable, for no genuine reason other than being poor, there we can possibly point to Pochettino and say, maybe he's not the man for this job. Remember, because of that blasted transfer window, a manager can no longer identify a problem and solve it easily by buying the right player. He can only act during two opportunities per season, with loads of competitors for the signature. So, huge improvements or fine tuning take longer these days.
No need to change your wording. it's exactly what Pochettino has been saying. Great football - lacking killer finish. He (Poch) did the hard bit quite quickly - he got us playing high up the pitch and pressing the opposition. Other aspects will take longer. In the last few games we've looked a little jaded and perhaps those games aren't the best games on which to judge progress. The last few games of the season are often unreflective of general ability - look at Wigan and Sunderland for example! Overall happy with the progress given Pochettino decided not to strengthen the squad in January. He's far more aware of the capability in the squad. Other than those whos contracts have expired, I dont think we will see any departures. Just 2 or 3 signings should give us an exciting season next year. top 4? Pushing it. Top half? Definitely achievable.
