Firstly, the 'standard' of living goes up incrementally anyway. Go back 100 years most people had no holidays, no luxuries and probably shared a tin bath and did their ablutions in an outside toilet block. So it's not really a comparable argument to say that 'before thatcher' the standards of living were lower, that's a historical / cultural effect. Secondly I remember Leyland. They didn't make particularly crap cars (by the standards of the day), but cheaper labour costs from the far east drove down their competitiveness. There's an argument in there about living wages, for both the Leyland workers and those from expanding economies who now dominate the manufacturing sector (Bangladeshi garment workers, being a topical issue) Leyland workers lost their jobs and Bangladeshi workers pay with their lives - and yet private business ensures that it protects it's modus operandi - Profit.
I'm not sure that I can spin out the Thatcher years in quite such glowing terms as you can, but I would agree that the financial crisis is not due to her work. The current mess is almost entirely due to certain countries, mainly the US and the EU, profiting from the fact that other nations "cannot afford for them to fail". Essentially they can borrow and print as much money as they like, because no one can afford for them to go bankrupt. A solid manufacturing base would have helped us, but that base had declined to a point of insignificance well before Thatcher arrived.
Probably best for another thread as this one is about Fergie. But happy to start a Thatcher v Common Decency thread if anybody is interested ?
Yea Fergie being gone is much easier to debate. I challenge anyone to say why it could be bad for us.
Moyes is set to be appointed http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22453895 Will be an interesting season at Utd next time around. I can't see him bringing instant success.
They still have their structures in place. I don't think it will be instant success either but they will not simply fall away.
Football without Fergie is going to be seriously weird for me. He has been in charge of United for 26 years and I am 22 years old!! I do not know what football is like without him involved.
Not for me. Fergie has been great for Manchester United as a football club but not football in general. - Boycotting of press conferences/interviews - Abuse/intimidation of referees/officials - Public vilification of opposition players/referees - Nasty attitude of players towards referees/the game in general. All traits by enlarge brought on or excelled by Fergie. League will be a better place without him. If the likes of Sky talked to real people instead of sycophants there would be plenty that agree.
I think all that just comes from his 'win at all cost' attitude. You have Jose Mourinho in your avatar, and as we all know, he is hardly an angel. These guys are just pure winners. Some of the things he did were clearly out of order (too many to name), and at other times, he was a complete hypocrite, but when it's all said and done, I can't help but admire his achievements.
No way. I would choose Bayern over United right now. They have the better squad and are playing in a league just as good as ours (and getting better). German football is on the up, Spanish Football on the way down, while the Premierleague has stagnated a little.
A lot of people don't realize or remember that before Fergie, Manchester United were not an all-conquering team. Liverpool were the ONLY dominant club in the league. About 5 other clubs, including Arsenal, won every 15 years or so, but Manchester United were not one of them. No one, except Liverpool, expected to win a trophy. Perhaps that's why a lot of old timers like me don't really understand this hyperbolic screaming about going X years without a trophy being a disgrace. If it were not for Fergie, our run over the Wenger years would have been seen as remarkably good. His ability to manage a team to win soccer games was unbelievable. I am half expecting some kind of Lance Armstrong revelation in the next ten years. It is just so incredible.
Not sure that District Line deserves that. I'm also not sure that the F.A. don't think that having a dominant club is good for the league. The English league has had its heydays in the eras, first of Liverpool, and then United. While, that is good for business, I think catering to one big team has meant that football in general has suffered. The eras of dominance have also coincided with mediocraty of the national team, financial troubles for many clubs and a lack of excitement in the league. It has also meant that the FA have often cowtowed to their support and made decisions "popular" with their fans. I will agree with you in that I'm not sure that was entirely SAF's fault. The only thing I like about all this, is that if there is a bias by the FA towards creating a dominant club, then Arsenal with their large fanbase abroad would make an excellent next candidate for their favoritism.
Exactly the same here. For as long as i've nown, Fergie has been ManUre's manager. Still, at least him buggering off levels the playing field up a bit.
whats that stink in here suddenly , ah yeah , a manure fan . I thought they would all be drowning their sorrows. ****ERS !
I don't get why they're calling for Moyes to be sacked, when Fergie hand picked him as his successor. Surely if he's good enough for Fergie, he's good enough for Manure's Asians, sorry, fans.
