Surely something needs to be done about these types of clubs stockpiling good young British talent, add to the list of Sinclair,Sturridge,rodwell and that young lad from the swans youth (cant remember his name now) no doubt countless others that I cant think of. I don't think Ben would go anyway,seems a very level headed boy to me, anyway thoughts on this story? Here is the link http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-city-consider-raid-swansea-1870202
I'm sure I saw an interview with Ben, and him saying that he wouldn't move to a club, where he would have to sit on the bench al la Sinclair.
Thing is Norway all the premier league clubs are doing it , even ours ! And that is what I detest the most about being in the league, well except the scumbag agents that is.
Are we doing it to the same degree though? or are we looking at young talent with a chance of them getting into our team? lets be honest here, the likes of Man city and Chelsea will always buy off the shelf even though they have the best young talent at the club, where a club like Southampton,Norwich and Swansea would at least provide a fighting chance of a player making the grade. It is a lifeblood to smaller teams but a plaything to the bigger teams IMO. Clubs have always looked for the best talent,nothing has changed there but im talking about actively searching out good young pro's and sitting them on the bench just to fulfil the homegrown/British player rule. Unless the FA start to get a grip on this then they wll fallfurther behind Germany and Spain !
To be honest Norway we are doing it, Donnelly is one, then that kid that we had from I think from Exeter Harley, didn't even play for us. There are plenty of others as well
Im not denying we are doing something similar but I will contest that we are doing the same as Man city. Donnelly hada choice of clubs and chose to come to us for his development,one of the reasons being that he had a better chance of making it as a player here than at Everton or Liverpool . What im getting at here is more to do with the next level of player, the ones that have made the grade and have got games and made a bit of headway in the game,this isn't so much about the likes of Donnelly but more about the likes of rodwell,sinclair and ben deavies. These players need a decent run of games for the next few years to progress as professionals but they are being collected like trophies and not used. Now of course we can all say that's their own choice and they don't have to take the move bla bl bla, but with agents being what they are will they ever get the correct advice to fulfil their potential ? its no secret that England and the home unions lag behind the other countries and as soon as one young player has a decent couple of games he is the next big thing ,fed bull **** and then bought for millions of pounds because if he doesn't go he is labelled as having "no ambition" Everything is conspiring againt the young talent in our game. I don't think Ben will go but if stupid money gets thrown around what does he do then ? Its getting stupid now, the big clubs are eating away the game from the inside and after a while there will be nothing left apart from rich agents !! crazy the way things re going in football. Jack Rodwell £22m Sinclair £6.2m Joe Allen £15m Andy carroll £35m Jorden Henderson £20m Michu £2m How are the young players coming through supposed to cope with being the real deal so early in their careers? the likes of Thierry Henry didn't hit top gear until their mid to late 20's same with bergkamp. Our young lads will end up bitter,broken (but rich) and lacking serious ability at the age of 25 and will get left behind, its not good for the game IMO.
What the big clubs are doing to get around the HG rule does seem counter productive to the aim of the rule. Perhaps the rule should be abolished altogether. That way the money bags teams could fill their squads with superstars and then the value of HG players would drop....meaning they would be affordable to clubs like ours who would actually play them. The England manager could also help by not picking English players who barely see any action at the big clubs for his squads....but then, he'd have to pick the likes of Britton, Osman, Lambert, Clyne, etc.
You only have to say two words to Ben to ensure he stays - Scott Sinclair. Ben needs regular football to develop - not sit on the bench.
I think the slight difference for me is, We are signing prospects who may be good enough for the PL, if they are not they will have gained some experience as they have come from non league. Man city are actually signing young players with PL experience and then sitting them on a bench for a season, with no intention of playing them apart from the odd cup game. I am sure that isnt going to help their developement. By the way that kid Ryan Harley was 26 when we signed him.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...0YGgCQ&usg=AFQjCNF_bzy5jAHvFN_CbUdbYoUBpTNGdg Work started on this at the back end of last year Youth development is the way the club views the future rather than spending millions bringing players in We will have to wait and see how it develops but the intentions seem good We don't believe Scott Sinclair was a Mancini signing,rather Brian Marwood in a battle of wills that Mancini appears to have won as Marwood has been moved sideways to youth development I doubt there is anything in it as regards your young left back
Yes Harley was 26, we sat him not even on the bench and he got no games, just because he was a lower league player it doesn't mean that he needs to gain experience as well. No matter how you spin it we are doing the same thing, obviously not to the extent of the bigger teams, but still that it is there. Until there is a fundamental change at clubs and federations this will continue, I for one will be pleased that if things change. One area I would change is the under 21 rule where clubs can effectively stockpile players, if the 25 players allowed included those under 21 it will stop this immediately.
There is a difference, Firstly Harley was signed for the Championship. Fortunately for us we went up, He wasnt considered good enough for the PL and was sold immediately to Brighton. It is not spin, yes we have signed young players, 3 at the last count, mostly from non league, with potential. Man city are signing Established Pl players albeit young and sitting them on the bench, not even considering developing them. However i do agree with you that change does need to be made to stop players stock piling young players, just to get their home grown qouta up.
How can you determine that when he didn't even play for us? He went back to Exeter when we signed him, and unless he played in the preseason (can't remember) then he wasn't given a chance. Though looking at it now Brighton have loaned him out so probably is not good enough. The point though is that the swans are stockpiling young players with no intension of them ever playing in the first team, we are as guilty as anyone in doing this. The only difference between a man city and us is that they can afford to stockpile more expensive young players. But the principle is the same. As I said unless change is made it will continue, and its not just in the uk it must change on the continent as well as you can't really apply rules here without the rest.
Harley did play pre season and after that was sold to brighton. You talk about youngsters what age do you mean. If you are talking under 21, then every club is stock piling with no intention of them playing first team football, even the likes of Barnet and Accrington. They have to because of this crazy under 21 league. What I am saying is that we are not buying ready made pl players, only to possibly not help their careers by not using players good enough to actually play in the pl.
The reason we are not is that we can't afford to spend millions on players and not use them. But we do have loads of players that will never play first team football ever. Which does nothing for the players or club. You are right about the under 21 league though but that is a very recent thing, and this has been ongoing for years. Before the under 21 league there was the reserves where there was no restrictions on who we could play. There needs to be changes all the way from the grass roots football where youngsters can shine, all the way through academies up to the first team. We fail massively in the uk where the emphasis is on bringing in foreign players instead of ensuring that young players are brought through. Players like Davies, Taylor and Allen are examples of bringing on local talent, but 3 or 4 players out of a nation of over 2m is frankly abysmal, even Cardiff have only brought through a few players over the years. We are a footballing nation and I can only think of probably a dozen or so players in the last decade who have gone on to be quality premier league players.
i hope Ben sees the light and wants to play football and not sit on the bench as previously mentioned. he is only 20 so has plenty of time to "get rich".
Hmm.. I see both sides of the story here but i tend to Think its Unn own what our clubs intentions Are when signing young talent. I beleive we sign These boys with the hope they develop further, when they dont they Get moved on. I dont see a club like swansea paying 100k just to stock pile a player,we dont throw money away lightly so i beleive our intentions Are genuine. Man city have bought sinclair and rodwell and hardly ever played them but the difference is that they have never really intended to use them OR develop them. Young players like obeng and situ have been talked about as future first team players,nobody knows if they Will make it or not but i beleive the lub Arnt paying them to stop them progressing as footballers they Are hoping for a return on the investment.
I have to say mate, so does every other club, that are a professional club. The difference with some is that they will filter down to lower league clubs.
I just see a difference between signing young talent from non league, hoping we can develop them in to first team players, to paying millions for established young PL talent for the sake of having young british players. To be honest we arent stockpiling 21 year olds. Most of our under 21 squad are actually in the 18, 19 age group. that is why we have struggled. We have also sent our youngsters out on loand to try and gain experience. Saying that i have no doubt if we had the money Man city had, we would be stocking up on the best young PL talent available. Instead we shop at cks, while man city shop at Harrods.
Bear in mind that the homegrown rule is only a few years old (with the exception of european competitions), the short term effect is that clubs pay premiums for home grown players to fill the quota. The long term effect is an increase in youngsters coming through the ranks from the local area with better prospects, coaching and facilities. The U-21 league again is new and is an attempt to level the playing field for younger players. Under the old reserve team rules anybody could play so big clubs could sign up a second eleven just to stick in the reserves incase of injury or suspension to the first team squad. This meant that youth suffered in the reserves because there were too many seasoned pro's to compete with. Now with only 3 over 21 players allowed it gives youngsters the same chance regardless of club stature and also allows a small number of players to get some match time (after injury a la Taylor or to provide guidance to the kids a la Monk). Give both time and we will see more home grown players come through. It will take several more years yet but it a step in the right direction. Spain and Italy for instance have applied this rule for longer and they don't have have reserve leagues (although some big teams have a 'B' team who play in the lower divisions). They both have far more talent coming through but it didn't happen overnight. It was planned in advance.
