I don't know if boring is the right word, unattractive is closer to the mark. I think whilst Lambert favoured attacking in numbers, and relying on defenders showing more individual talent to keep things respectable at the other end, Hughton is the other way around. He likes his back 6 to keep things tight, and relies on the front 4 to do something special and create goals. At the moment the front 4 aren't good enough to do this consistently enough, so a lot of our goals are coming from set pieces. Next season we'll hopefully have a stronger front 4, perhaps with Snodgrass the only one carried over, and hopefully that will lead to more creativity and chances, with a better player hopefully taking more of those chances. Where the expensive DM comes in is tying the two groups together. We need someone comfortable in possession and with a good passing range to help keep a tempo (basically Fox), who is also intelligent enough to always provide an out-ball when Hoolahan (or whoever) runs into a dead end, but also someone rock solid in the tackle to stop counter-attacks in their tracks. Alongside Johnson we'd hopefully have enough solidity to stand firm against the top sides, but perhaps against weaker sides they'd either allow the second DM to attack more, or be sacrificed for a second striker. At the moment I wouldn't feel comfortable with Johnson or Tettey playing the DM role alone against nearly any opposition, possibly with the exception of Reading last weekend.
No, those comments sum up an inept entertainer. As a football manager, I think we have to accept that results run parallel with entertaining. I would not say he is a good football manager - good ones entertain, but equally he cannot be inept, because he has, to some degree, an ability to get a team to overachieve.
With Ruddy in goal and Bassong at centre-back I'd feel perfectly comfortable playing Johnson on his own at DM against any team outside the top eight or so. Maybe not Tettey, but then I don't think Tettey is an out and out, disciplined, DM.
“@maccaking26: @davidmcnally62 Are the rumours true that we have signed Mohamed El-Nenny??” no Well, that's that!
Rob, are you seriously suggesting that producing a team that plays dreadful football whilst being inflexible is not inept. It might not be if the team was like that to begin with. If your a nightclub owner who who takes over with a thriving happy customer base (fans), and turn it into a place which is a dreadful experience (dreadful football) to go and less money coming in (points) and does not know how to change things (bereft of ideas). Then he's inept to manage. If you think he's rubbish just say so, not give a serious of downright blatant derogatory comments about his style and ideas and then say he an OK manager.
He will in all likelihood keep us up this year. I for one feared we would go down so that is a good achievement in itself. To use your nightclub analogy, if a club is busy due to lots of ecstasy fuelled teenagers (exciting football but inept defending), he might take the long view and ban drugs (wandering full backs and midfielders). In the short term the place would lose its atmosphere, but overtime the richer 20 something's (RVW and 'Biglia') might be attracted. He is then left with an equally busy club, with more money at the bar and doesn't have to fear that his success could implode following a police raid.
He might, but the description was he was bereft of ideas. Your analogy is from made up events which haven't happened, we are talking about the one relating to the present. My point is, if your going to slate someone, don't backtrack after the event.
I'm getting more than a little fed up with the idea that Lambert was absolute magic and Chris Hughton just the opposite. If you look at a similar period last year, in the 13 matches from the 18th of February to the fifth of May, City gained an impressive 8 points from 13 matches. Not a single clean sheet in that run. The cry then was why can't City keep a clean sheet? Personally, I found that run very depressing, and certainly anything but uplifting. I think Villa fans may feel similarly at the moment. City were flattered by away wins against Bolton and QPR when they had players sent off for silly reasons. In the last 11 matches, City have gained 12 points, with 3 clean sheets. Okay, it hasn't always been pretty, but it has been effective, in spite of some dubious refereeing. I have to ask the question: if Lambert is so much better, why are Villa (a much bigger club) four points behind us now? I always thought that this season would be difficult. I think CH thought the same. Would anybody really want to change places with Villa now?
Why is it a case of swapping with Villa, Villa are not the comparison, the comparison is with last season. Villa have different players, different set up, different momentum, different fans etc etc. Ask yourself the question, compare the complaints from this season to last, and this is despite having better players than before. I would have no problem at all with Hughton if it wasn't for how he has that team set up to play. I have no problem with being defensive, its just the way he goes about it. The total point tally is OK its no less really than expected. But the football is truly atrocious, there is absolutely no denying it, its generally been terrible. And that is because of Hughton. If he changes next year I'll be alright with him, I don't think he will however, it will just be the same but with faster players.
carrabuh - I do hope you're wrong that you don't think CH will change his style of play, as if that is the case, my season ticket will be available for some of the home games against the teams from the lower reaches of the PL. I thought that the games against Newcastle, Fulham and Saints were pretty dire to say the least and not very enjoyable IMO.
You seem to have ignored the comparison with last year, Carrabuh. The bit about 8 points from 13 matches, 8 of which were losses. That wasn't pretty either. Like you, I want to see City playing attractive football, but not at that sort of cost. I believe that CH wants that as well, but not until he has the squad that can manage that next year. RvW is a beginning and I think there will be another 4-5 quality players coming in to create a full PL squad. The style of play will change because of that. The final comparison to Lambert was simply to emphasize that the manager isn't everything. We want the same thing, but perhaps see different ways of getting to it.
Carrabuh I've already explained this clearly. You are conflating two things that I have specifically said I am keeping separate: 1) a manager who produces entertaining football (Lambert, Wenger, Holloway, all in different ways) 2) a manager whose team are successful (Ferguson, Wenger, Allardyce, all in different ways) I think it is imperative to keep these separate, because they do not go hand in hand - thus Holloway can take a team down playing exciting football, whereas Allardyce can keep a team up playing dross. One is about how we fans enjoy the game, the other is about how the club performs statistically. They are fundamentally different concepts. Hughton clearly struggles to entertain us, so yes, he is inept at this aspect. However, it is undeniable that he has not failed in terms of what our team statistically could achieve, given the quality of players at his disposal. Due to the second point, by definition, he cannot be an inept manager. An inept manager would have poor results and fail to entertain as well. I accept that some characteristics can fall into either basket, e.g. flexibility. I think it is important to be flexible to be a highly successful manager, but it does not require flexibility to stay in this league. So yes, a team can be inflexible (a la Allardyce, or Pulis) but still successful. The problem with your night club analogy is that a football team can win points without fans or entertaining. A night club can't make money without punters. So therefore, actually, I can say his style is awful, and that I think with the current team he seems to only have a plan A, but yet I can still say he is an OK manager, because with that plan A, he has almost certainly kept probably the second weakest (man for man) squad up, and may well do so with room to spare. The point being, that the things I am criticising him for are how much I am enjoying the football, but the thing I'm accepting he is getting right, are what is keeping us in the Prem.
Again, conflation. I have praised one thing, but criticised something else. This is possible you know? A manager doesn't have to fit in either the category of awful or the category of great. There are shades of grey. Like in life. People are good at some things and not others. And I seriously resent the aspersion that I am somehow back-tracking. For a considerable amount of time I have made it quite clear that I: a) appreciate that Hughton has some talent in getting results: but b) am finding his style and method increasingly frustrating because I'm no longer enjoying the football. I have not back tracked from this, these are not contradictory concepts. I appreciate that you don't really care about the results, Carrabuh, as long as the football is how you want it, but you will have to accept some day that other people see it differently. You sound suspiciously like you are on a wind up. Why are you struggling with the separation of these two concepts? If you don't actually respond to my post, I will just stop responding because you "have a habit" of replying to perfectly adequate explanations with a rehash of your last post and no attempt to engage with the content.
why are people unable to see what CH did at Newcastle? there, he had his own squad that was good enough for the Championship, and won the title in style, scoring many goals. his overall record, in nearly a season and a half, before his sacking, at Newcastle was a win % of 55.7%, not exactly that of a negative, uninspiring manager. in doing so several Championship records were broken, including fastest to promotion. do you people believe that he has changed his philosophy since coming to City? no, he is just a very pragmatic man and realises what is needed to get the job done. next season he will have better tools at his disposal in order to do a better job. if at this time next season things have not changed then i may be wrong and you may be right, but i have faith in his abilities to be a successful City manager.
I agree, the comparisons with Newcastle are apt and reveal a lot. At Birmingham, CH had to be pragmatic, but the risks weren't as great in the Championship as he built his team and still had a good performance in the Europa League. With RvW and other quality players coming in next year the style will move on as well.
Meawhile El-Nenny is likely to play for Basel against Chelsea tonight. Bookies seem to rate him reasonably highly as he's 5/1 to score anytime which is a similar price to Marin and Stocker. For comparison, Howson and Hoolahan are both 5/1 to score anytime against Stoke. (although what to they know, they think Becchio is more likely to score than Snodgrass)
