Have you heard what Whitmarsh had to say? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105898 Wow, I don't really have anything else to say apart from this ---> I think I'm going enjoy this season
Why oh why did they have to **** with it. They'll catch up, but it the fight for big prizes will be over before they do. Dominating the last race of the season to this.
So that's 2002, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2011 and now 2013 where McLaren are going to start the season on the back foot. Problem with the potential McLaren plan is that they are putting a lot of pressure on themselves when it comes to the mid season point when their car should come to the fore, who's to say that Red Bull and co won't develop as well as McLaren? The design philosophy potentially gives them the opportunity to develop more than others, this isn't a guarantee that the McLaren will come on song later in the year as some people think. Usually I would not be so drastic in my assessment before we have even got to Melbourne but when the TP and the drivers are basically admitting that they are likely to be off the pace it worries me.
Well the car is a dog. Is it too late for McLaren just to ship the ****ing '27 to Aus? Its probably faster with no development. Can't believe they've got it so badly wrong. Need to stop posting before i launch into a two-page rant.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21821853[h=1]Gary Anderson: Five things we learnt from Australia Grand Prix[/h] please log in to view this image By Gary Anderson BBC F1 technical analyst Notwithstanding Kimi Raikkonen's excellent win for Lotus, the stand-out story of the Australian Grand Prix weekend was just how much trouble McLaren are in. It's a tricky situation for them. They have pushed the boundaries on the car with lots of changes from last year - the high chassis, and changes to the front brake-duct, rear suspension and coke-bottle shape are all in my book pretty positive. But all that does is create potential. They then have to exploit to the maximum the avenues they have opened and they clearly have not done that yet. They also seem not to know what is wrong. Aerodynamics are what make a Formula 1 car perform so we have to assume that is where the problem lies. Aerodynamics should be easy to assess in a simulator. In the wind tunnel, teams run the car in roll, yaw, with steering angle and various sets of ride-heights and create a set of what are known as aero maps - a three-dimensional aerodynamic production of the car for all the different parameters. They apply that to the simulator, which is easy to do, and the driver gets in and drives it, and depending on what he discovers the aero map can be adjusted to change the behaviour of the car. Developments that work well are kept; those that don't aren't. So the question is, how have McLaren got it so badly wrong for the car to be more than two seconds off the pace? Play media please log in to view this image Australian GP highlights: Raikkonen races to Melbourne victory Either the wind tunnel data is not correct, the simulator does not do its job correctly, or there is a characteristic on the car that the wind tunnel does not show up - aerodynamic stall or whatever. They should not be in this position given their quality as a team. McLaren have to go back and look at why the package they have is not functioning better. I would be looking at the front-wing assembly, where I think they have taken a detrimental step. They have gone to a three-element front wing. But because that has large-section elements, it means when the wing stalls, such as during braking or in high-speed corners, there is a bigger percentage stall. That gives inconsistent balance. McLaren also have a very aggressive coke-bottle shape at the rear. You have to be very careful with that because while it will produce more overall downforce in optimum conditions, it is very easy for the airflow to separate when the car is in yaw mid-corner. That means the car loses downforce because instead of the coke-bottle being able to drag the airflow over the top of the floor and make the floor work more efficiently, one side gives up and the airflow goes under the floor. I suspect that there are parts on the car that are a big gamble and they have not got them right, basically.
McLaren - Scarbs It was clear in testing from driver comments that the MP4-28 is a car not yet fully understood and finding a set-up quickly is tricky. Driver comments ranged from a lack of grip at the front or the back, to harsh ride over bumps and kerbs. As Melbourne demands positive turn-in to the corners and traction out of them, McLaren's woes are being amplified. McLaren's Australian specification uses the newer front wing with the flatter frontal profile, a very large rear wing and the early 2012 turning vanes mounted to the nose cone. Underneath the front of the chassis is an access hatch. This is used by the mechanics to get to adjust the springs and dampers of the front suspension. The newer turning vanes mounted around this hatch and having them in place hindered access. Thus having the older vanes mounted to the nose which is removed during set-up changes makes the mechanics' lives easier and speeds up changes. please log in to view this image McLaren has made changes to make its car more accessible for enginers © XPB
McLaren boss Whitmarsh praises drivers' attitude amid car troubles [TABLE="width: 100%"] [TR] [TD="class: news_article_author, width: 50%"]By Jonathan Noble[/TD] [TD="class: news_article_date, width: 50%, align: right"]Tuesday, March 19th 2013, 10:42 GMT[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] please log in to view this image McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh has praised his drivers for the attitude they are taking to the outfit's 2013 troubles. Jenson Button and Sergio Perez face a troubled start to the campaign with the new MP4-28 well off the pace. Although the team's form is well adrift of what it had hoped and expected for this year, Whitmarsh says that his two drivers have impressed him in the way they are dealing with its plight. "After a weekend like this, you look for positives, and one of the positives is how great the drivers have been," explained Whitmarsh. "Their attitude and approach through a difficult weekend has been very, very good. "Jenson, we know and love and we expect that from him. He is that sort of professional. "For a young driver like Checo to arrive into this situation, to cope with it and perform in such difficult circumstances in such a positive way, is encouraging. "They are working with the team. They are team players and we will do it together." Whitmarsh said that even his own mood had been lifted by the way that Button and Perez were dealing with things. "They have both been exemplary," he said. "You get raised by them. You want to fight for them. "They deserve it, and it makes you even more determined to deliver for them. They did a great job this weekend in circumstances that were not good for them." HOPING FOR A LOTTERY please log in to view this image Button admitted ahead of the Malaysian Grand Prix that he is pinning his hopes for the upcoming weekend on the weather causing mayhem, as he is aware that things will not improve if the race takes place in the dry. "I don't think we can expect an improvement in our fortunes, but the thing about Malaysia is that it can be so unpredictable - particularly with the later start time on Sunday afternoon, which tends to see late-afternoon showers fall," said the Briton. "We know that the unpredictable weather can make it a lottery for everyone. "That's something that could play into our hands - I do enjoy driving in changeable conditions, and would love the challenge of being able to run competitively in a car that we all know is not quite capable of challenging for victories yet."
McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh bullish on team's future [TABLE="width: 100%"] [TR] [TD="class: news_article_author, width: 50%"]By Jonathan Noble[/TD] [TD="class: news_article_date, width: 50%, align: right"]Wednesday, March 20th 2013, 10:11 GMT[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] please log in to view this image McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh insists he has no concerns about the long term state of his team, even though he admits there are 'challenges' on the horizon. On the back of a difficult start to the campaign, with the new MP4-28 not being a front-runner in its current specification, McLaren also faces further hurdles in the future. It needs to sign a new title sponsor for next year, with Vodafone quitting its deal at the end of 2013; it faces a transition spell with a switch to Honda for 2015 and it has seen high-profile figures like Lewis Hamilton and Paddy Lowe choose to quit. The issues facing McLaren have left some suggesting the team faces a difficult future, but team principal Martin Whitmarsh has told AUTOSPORT he is bullish - but realistic – about what lies ahead. "I am feeling the challenge of F1," he said. "In terms of the finances of the company they are very stable. "I think we have got some reasonable long term deals in the pipeline, so I am feeling comfortable about that. "At the moment I have a few more concerns about the competitiveness of our car than I have about the longer term issues right now. "But they are a challenge and you cannot be complacent about it. You have to perform in the here and now and as a business you have to perform in the longer term. We are pretty comfortable with where we are going as a company." McLaren has promised to announce a new title sponsor in December, although it is understood that a deal has not yet been finalised on who that will be. Whitmarsh believed that the team's current competitive problems would not be an issue in hampering its efforts to find a suitable partner. please log in to view this image "McLaren has since 1966 won 182 grands prix," he said. "We have won more than a quarter of all the races since we entered F1. Our hit rate at the moment is still at that sort of levels. "We have ups and downs, which is the nature of the sport, but we have a reasonably consistent performance. "We have only had four title sponsors in 50 years, and I think we are confident about the future." When asked if they had actually signed a title sponsor, Whitmarsh said: "We are very confident...we will make an announcement later in the year on what we are doing."
Scarbs: As McLaren gains understanding of its car issues, it has become clear that it has a greater problem than one of mere set-up. Fundamentally, the MP4-28 is very sensitive to ride height or, perhaps more specifically, it is pitch sensitive. Many have pointed to the front wing, but the car has run with older and previously successful specifications of the front wing, so that can't be the whole story. The car appeared to run well with the great nose-down set-up tested at Jerez. McLaren later admitted that the Jerez test pace was because of a suspension part being incorrectly fitted, leading to an excessively low front ride height. The problem might well be with aero parts working in unexpected ways when the car is run with higher front ride height and less of a nose-down rake angle. This could point to the shape of the chassis itself or subtle interactions with wing endplates, brake ducts or the turning vanes under the nose. Even the splitter might be a problem. McLaren's short-term aim is to reduce the aero complexity at the front of the car and set the front axle up to be very stiff. This would reduce mechanical grip and driver confidence but it will also reduce the ride height variation around the lap to keep the aerodynamics stable. Sepang is built on swampland and the track is bumpy, so McLaren will still have problems this weekend with a stiff set-up. One question that is still unanswered is how the McLaren came to run with such a low ride height at the first Jerez test. Ride height can be measured when the car is stood still in the pits (static) and when on track and affected by aero load (dynamic). Static ride height is dictated by the pushrod length and the torsion bars. As the car will be measured in the garage it's unlikely that the static ride height would be set too low. But fitting either of these parts incorrectly is unlikely to result in a wrong ride height. So it's more likely that it was the dynamic ride height that ended up being too low. As the car gains speed and the aerodynamics apply load to the chassis, the ride height will drop as the suspension is compressed. This travel is then limited by the heave element, which is typically a damper body with a spring and/or bump rubbers. After a degree of free play, the spring will start to add stiffness to the suspension to prevent ride height reducing too much. One type of spring used on heave dampers are Belleville springs. These are stacks of dished washers and if they are fitted back to front they will increase the free play and reduce the spring effect. So it is most likely that it was an assembly error in the heave damper back at the factory. To gain further understanding of its problems, McLaren conducted extensive flow visualisation runs in free practice. The team coated parts of the front wing, brake ducts, floor and diffuser with the fluorescent paint in order to work out if the car's aerodynamics perform as expected.
There has been a lot of head scratching at McLaren 1/3 PreviousNext Sky Bet 2013 Drivers' Championship Sebastian Vettel 10/11 Fernando Alonso 3/1 Kimi Raikkonen 6/1 2013 Constructors' Championship £10 Free Bet Jenson Button's entire 2013 season probably hinges on what happens at the McLaren Technology Centre in the three weeks between the Malaysian and Chinese Grands Prix. Will he be a contender this year, winning races just as in his previous three McLaren seasons, or is he consigned to be a bit-part player in a fundamentally flawed machine? A major engineering upgrade of the troublesome MP4-28 is underway. The alternative - that of bringing last year's car out of retirement - has for now been cast aside, though it was considered. The team is confident it has identified the main shortcoming of the car as an aerodynamic one, unconnected with the radical pull-rod front suspension and centring around the underfloor. Button couldn't find balance The way airflow behaves in the small gap between the ground and an F1 car's underfloor is extremely sensitive and very aerodynamically powerful. The lower to the ground it can run, the more downforce that can be produced as the air pressure difference between the underfloor air and that in free-flow around the upper surfaces of the car increases - and it is this difference in pressure that sucks the car harder to the ground. A 1mm reduction in ride height can give a downforce increase worth around 0.1s per lap. The normal limitation is the car grounding out as the downforce through the faster corners grinds the car into the ground. Allowance has to be made for the addition of around 150kg of fuel at the start of the race - and for the fact that parc ferme regulations do not allow a change of ride height between qualifying and race. If that were not the case, the cars could be run much lower during qualifying when they are running light, with low fuel levels. On Sky Sports The F1 Show April 5, 2013 8:00pm Remote Record At the ride height range in which an F1 car normally runs, the McLaren's underbody airflow detaches, separating off and dispersing rather than following the downforce-inducing form of the floor and diffuser. As this happens, much of the downforce is released, the car moves up on its springs as a result and thereby moves out of the critical ride height window where the air detaches. With the airflow now working as it should once more, so the downforce builds again, forcing the ride height back down to the critical level and triggering the detachment. Hence the car behaving like a bucking bronco, particularly around the bumpy Albert Park circuit in Australia. Just as the McLaren's airflow can be made to behave normally above a certain ride height window, so it seems there is a ride height below which it will also work. But that ride height is too low to use in race conditions - and therefore cannot be used in qualifying either, because of the parc ferme regulations. It is believed the car was running with this super-low ride height when it set the fastest time of the first day at Jerez testing. At Malaysia the car was improved compared to Australia by the team running the car relatively high, above the ride height that triggers the most severe of the buffeting phenomenon. Although such a ride height sacrifices downforce to rivals that can run lower without problem, reducing the bouncing brought more gain than the loss from reducing peak downforce. "We were at least 1.5s off the pace in Australia," said Button in Malaysia, "but if qualifying had remained dry here I think we would be maybe 1s off, maybe even slightly less. It's helped by the fact that Sepang is a smoother track than Albert Park, but it's also from improvement in the car from the way we're running it." Obviously, the aim is to be able to ruin a conventionally low ride height but without triggering the airflow detachment. Whitmarsh worried about lack of pace The team believes it learned a lot about why the detachment problem is arising from on-the-hoof modifications made in Sepang, including crudely 'cutting and shutting' the contours of the diffuser, in order to energise the flow better around the crucial areas where it is detaching. Whilst it's surprising that the powerful simulation tools of McLaren did not pick up on the aerodynamic problem before the car actually ran, the team is running absolutely flat-out in the break before China to have heavily upgraded cars in Shanghai for Button and Sergio Perez. Don't bet against a total transformation of form.
No China thread yet, so this will do... http://www.planet-f1.com/driver/3213/8613114/-Happy-Button-upbeat-about-title-push
Tweet by some ITK F1 chap claims that MP4-28 will, by Spain have.. #F1 McLaren updates for Spain: FW, RW, sidepods, deflectors, exhaust, floor, engine cover. Nose stays high & they keep pullrod-front.suspension Nothing major then
Surely reverting to push rod suspension would have made more sense than aero upgrades? The car has poor mechanical grip, they should fix that first.
My thoughts too.. looks like they've opted for the "Monte Carlo or Bust" approach! Would be ironic if, after these changes the MP4-28 ends up looking more like last years MP4-27
