Unfortunately there is no such thing as 'fair competition'. If there was, every team would start off with the same budget at the beginning of the season, then allowed to spend it how they want. Is it fair a team getting relegated getting the sum of parachute payments they get? Is it fair one team can be on TV a dozen times (and therefore getting TV revenue) where another maybe shown once? Is it fair an owner can spend tens of millions of his own money, racking up debt on the club's books, in the hope his team reach the 'promised' land of Premiership money. Is it fair a team's manager is good mates with a Premiership manager so can get a couple of very good players on loan from them? Fair competition has long gone - some would say when Sky and their money arrived. Teams use the resources that are available to them and their owners. One team will be a bottomless pit of money, another is good relationships while ours is a relationship with a club with the same owners, who have an extensive scouting network. expect to see plenty of permanent signings in the summer with the use of this network, along with some of the Udinese/Granada players that are surplus to their requirements (or who suits ours more)
I understand that as a first thought Craig - it could seem unsporting if it were principally to "bend " rules. however Udinese have been investing in Granada for a few years now and used the policy of giving players experience whilst giving clubs access to other resources. The Pozzos see it as a better model for the future of lower debt football. I would think about it another way if I were you Craig - consider if a lot of clubs were to forge foreign links - or even domestic ones - and then develop youngsters by giving them football in lower leagues before bringing them back the better for it. Watford have a proud history as do many other clubs of having Premiership players loaned to them and handing them back to their parent sthe better for it. I think your only real hang up is that you forget that with adequate wealth clubs can get better players anyway. Fair point Jck. Jck - while we are conversing can I not "lend" you an "a" for your name. I know that when God handed out the alphabet we in Wales got two few vowels and too many consonants. Have a vowel on me
2 from Al Ahly as their Season was suspended due to the Port Said Disaster so we thought we'd take a couple of their International talents and give them playing time rather than spending months on the sidelines. Elmohamady is on loan from Sunderland. Completely different situation to what Watford is in. We only have a maximum of two players from one Club (in regards to loans).
I agree with a lot of what you say and some of those issues are starting to be addressed, but I think it's a sad day when we accept; "there is no such thing as 'fair competition'." The truth is that without fair competition the game becomes worthless and it's down to supporters more than anyone else to protect the 'standards' of football. Anyway that's just my opinion and I don't want to wum so I'll bugger off now before I wear out my welcome.
Craig, you have given your opinions in an honest, non provocative manner, not wumming at all! With regard to fair competition, I'm afraid that ended when Sky became involved and turned a sport into a business! The poor old, long suffering supporters are at the bottom of the pile these days, it's all about Russian or Middle Eastern tycoon's playthings these days!
Your opinion is always welcome and if we disagree, we will say why we disagree and hopefully give a decent, reasoned argument as to why our opinion differs. It's what these sites are (or at least should be) about Many fans were worried at the start of the season that we may lose our identity with the new owners, sacking Dyche in favour of Zola and with so many players being brought in. The owners decided to leave our Academy a category 3 rather than invest a lot of money in 1 or 2. But in reflection, the majority are pleased with what is happening. We are still promoting youth from within (plus giving long contracts to those who they deem good enough). The owners are using new ideas for bringing in fans, while offering an attractive 'product'. The loans were a short term option as we didn't have very long in the transfer market last season. Some of the players we had weren't good enough, so we were given players Zola could work with (and improve) to make us competitive this season. We will sign some of these players in the summer - depending on who we want, and who wants to come. We will also have been using the Pozzo scouting network, identifying players suitable for Watford, to sing in the summer. Either way, our 'loan' list will not be anywhere near as high. The Pozzo will have a budget for the club, and we will bring in players who stick within this budget. We have resources to buy to make us competitive, while trying to keep us a sustainable business. This can't be wrong...
Is EPPP allowing top clubs to hoover up young talent and pay a pittance to lower league clubs who can't afford to comply with the new academy regulations fair? Is FPPP which prevents new owners coming into football and threatening the status quo fair? Is giving 60m over 4 years as parachute payment to relegated club fair? I'm afraid the Premier League and Sky have no interest in fans or for the development of football in this country and it's difficult to see things getting better in the future.
Over a long season of 46 games only the top two deserve to go up automatically. The rest is history (or will be)
I respect your point of view, but believe that fans of all ages would agree that a football club's existence trumps that, and that living within your means is at least as important. No-one on this planet has the right to knowingly gamble on a club's existence. Certainly not for personal gain, and not even in the hope of bringing unparalleled success to the club. Countless people have done so in recent years, and look at the predicaments that the likes of Portsmouth, Coventry and Leeds have found themselves in in recent years. Another six months of Bassini and we might well have joined that list. EDIT: I haven't explained my point well. The point to the above is that even if I accept the argument that we are behaving in an unsportsmanlike manner (I acknowledge it but don't accept it as necessarily being correct), it is far less unethical than trying to buy success with money we don't have. If a club does that and fails, it could go bust. If it succeeds but drives other clubs into the slippery slope of unsustainable spending, that club's success might directly lead to another club going bust.
Craig, there are many things in football that are unfair, many clubs have an advantage over others as many have already stated on this post. We could say its unfair Sheffield W and leeds have such large fan bases as it gives them a financial advantage over a club in a small town like Watford. The only reason all this has come to light is that Watford have mightly over achieved this season given from were we started from. If our new owners had thrown millions of pounds at the club and all the "loan's had been signed as permanent conventional transfers it would not have been given the press it has. Times change, football changes and may be Watford should be congratulated for finding a legal way to efficently managing its finances and yet improving itself into the bargain and showing you do not have to throw daft amounts of money at a business to make it sucessful which in just about any other comercial enviroment would see itself implode. Unfair no, shrewd good buisiness economics yes!!!!
Errrrm...so owners like Man City's owners don't have an unfair advantage because they can buy loads of players over £30 million, and some clubs are struggling to even exist? Watford haven't signed a player in the millions since Nathan Ellington nearly 6 years ago. Why don't the other teams get foreign owners, it not our problem, if they don't. There is no side to your argument.
Moot point only, but are you saying that Lloydinho didn't come through the ranks? Sorry, I have to take you to task over that one. If you believe that, then you are not as old a supporter as you think. Many on here are my contemporaries - some are even older - and I would be very surprised if they agree with that. Good sportsmanship - both on the field and in the boardroom - flew out the window decades ago. What happens on-field these days is the total antithesis of what happened back in the 50's/60's, and simply would not have been tolerated back then - and even back then it was generally accepted that sportsmanship had all but disappeared from the game. I think you missed one Kev - is it fair that one team in the Championship comes from a town with a population of 80,000, having to compete against others with populations in the hundreds of thousands, or even millions? Simple jealousy that we punch above our weight? I have to wonder what those who continually grumble about our situation would find to say had the take-over happened a month earlier than it did, and the club had had the time to sign the players they apparently object to us having on permanent contracts?
Add to that the fact that 4 in every 5 of the football interested popualtion of that town wears an Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool or Man United shirt and only gives a **** about us when we're playing a "big" team. And to save Craig in nottingham another post - I fully appreciate that it's the same in other places .
It wasn't the Football League, it was FIFA. They classify them as transfers as they have to be long term loans (starting and ending in a transfer window), and it's something to do with restricting the number of international moves a player can make in a certain length of time. I can't remember the exact details, but it's not a FL rule as we exploited the same loophole while we were in the PL. (The PL rule is 2 loans and we played 3 most games in McShane, King, and Zayatte, the latter being the foreign loan) But that's not the point Craig was making.
As Watford fans have pointed out I agree that loaning players around is far better than splashing silly money on players. Loaning is how most young players get considerable amount of playing time at young ages in order to develop and is a vital part to the continuity of the sport. However I don't see why foreign loans should be classed different to domestic, utterly baffling, as it's no good having teams who are majorly made up of players who won't be at their respective clubs the next season, fans have an emotional connection and investment in their club which includes the players and that investment can't really be made if they're cheering on a completely different squad of players each season. I also think it's bad for the integrity of the league system that teams aren't really 'their own', rather just a mix up of bigger clubs future talent. This is of course assuming that a majority of clubs started overflowing their ranks with loans, which as of right now is not the case. I also think that if loans are going to be relaxed in any way, it should be for English and Welsh players (only fair to include Welsh as their teams play in our league system and should count as domestic) rather than overseas players in order to give as many of our own youngsters as good a chance as they can get to play competitively at a good standard and develop their game giving strength not only to our national set ups but the entire league system as a whole. I don't really mind too much about the recruitment strategy Watford have employed this season as long as it doesn't set a precedent and become more common practice, as I say in my last point I firmly believe we (as in all english clubs) should be doing a lot more and everything we can to create more and better homegrown talent to represent our clubs and country. I find it very sad when you look at a list of the current top English players, then look at any top foreign club or international side and count how many of those would make it into any team away from here.
To clarify jck are my initials if I needed an "a" I have one, as you can imagine we are all in a very good mood here at Cardiff and you and Hull have our best wishes for the final three games. jck
The final three games for us will be the play-offs - or more probably Leeds at home and then two play off games - our form has gone completely
