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St. Marys expansion?

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by SAINTDON13, Apr 13, 2013.

  1. TheSecondStain

    TheSecondStain Needs an early night

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    If I was a gambling person, I'd bet on that outcome myself. Plus, from an environmental point of view, I wouldn't like to see a greenfield site chopped down and ploughed up to build more concrete shapes. There is plenty of expansion at Britannia Road, as the present use is of relatively low value. Look at the architectural proposals and you see new uses for hundreds of yards around the enlarged stadium. My only concern is transportation links in and out of the city, and Saints are perhaps lucky that there is a long established railway line, already in place, previously used for Northam station [now gone], South Western House [when it was a hotel] and the Boat Trains of decades past. Presently, although still active, it is thoroughly underused, so it's not out of the question.

    I also would not like to see Saints move out of the heart of the city to, say Hedge End or Jackson's farm area, and that could be a very real possibility if Nicola Cortese wants Saints to become a Solent City club. Supporters might giggle at that prospect, but at present there are around a million people living in the metro areas of Hampshire, alone. One team in Hampshire..? Perhaps, but I'd rather we stayed near the water, even if it is less practical to do so. That's my overriding emotional response..!
     
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  2. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Depending on the cost comparisons and work/effort involved. You are probably correct, but there would need to be a list of pros and cons drawn up against costs and against future expectations (which I know are hard to quantify)
     
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  3. AllotedTime

    AllotedTime Active Member

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    Has Cortese ever said anything official on this subject? I wasn't aware he had - I can recall seeing something suggesting that he doesn't really like the stadium as it's clear it was built on the cheap although I can't remember where. I'd definetely trust his judgement, he's the chief executive of a football club after all, but at the moment I'm just trying to think what I would decide where I him.

    The issue I have is that expanding the current stadium appears to be of dubious economic benefit. I've read a number of articles over the years and all seem to indicate that adding more than 5000 extra seats would be very difficult (i.e. expensive and time consuming) and even at the quoted costs for adding 5000 it would take many years to see a benefit. One day a new stadium might be the answer, but I don't think we're ready for that yet. And adding capacity now only to decide later that moving is the only option would be a spectacular waste of money. Tinkering at the edges isn't the answer.

    I have as much ambition for this club as anyone, but at this moment in time whilst not ideal I don't beleive the stadium is actually holding us back. Let's see where we are in a year or two's time and then make a decision from there.
     
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  4. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about officially, but he did say to me :emoticon-0105-wink: that the stadium was build on the cheap and that it was not good enough. He said we need to fill the stadium or at least get regular close to filled gates and that there had been plenty of discussions with council people over possibilities of extending and working on improving the whole area. He was certainly open to a new stadium too and gave no real preference to either. This was January 2012.
     
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  5. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    What you have to have is a population in excess of a million. We don't have that and never will.
     
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  6. jenthesaint1990

    jenthesaint1990 Well-Known Member

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    not really, in terms of cost - expanding st mary's and building a new stadium would probably cost the same.
     
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  7. noebar

    noebar New Member

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    Delay the exansion or a new build and the costs will sore.
     
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  8. pass the football

    pass the football Well-Known Member

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    Based on what?
     
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  9. Gastonomy

    Gastonomy Member

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    Market share is a massive factor in the success of a football club. Look at the big clubs (like Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal) who haven't bought success (like Citeh and Chelsea), much of their support and most of their revenue doesn't come from their metropolitan area. They draw people from miles around and have developed international brands. For Saints to be a "big team", we need to get the press and international focus and that means we need a 50-60,000 capacity and that status it brings.

    So, to meet our ambitions in a sustainable way, we need a much bigger ground.
    The only questions are: What is the best way to build that ground - expansion or relocation? and When should we start?

    I haven't seen the facts and figures on expansion or relocation but it strikes me that the current site is very well suited and adding a station on the London-Southampton line could be done at reasonable cost. Furthermore, the local council and firms would see a redevelopment of the current site as a very positive proposal for the city. This would make planning easier and gives the potential for costs to be shared.

    In terms of When. It must be NOW. All our "local" rivals are on the slide and we have a chance to grab market share and floating fans. I would love the idea of 20,000 new young fans over the next 5 years whose fathers support Pompey and Reading!

    I would be astonished if Cortese isn't well advanced with this and, now that we are secure in the Premiership, already making moves that we will start to hear about over the summer.
     
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  10. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
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    Very good post Gastonomy. I am slowly coming down on the side of redevelopment (as opposed to building new) because as you say, we have a city centre location, fairly accessible by road and with the possibility of improved rail access. Leaving aside the financial implications, which I am sure Nicola Cortese has the best people working on, and the planning permission issues, which again, I am sure are covered, the main issues are logistical. In other words, where would Saints play while all this building work was going on? It could take in excess of a whole season to demolish and rebuild large sections of SMS, and we would have to accommodate Premier League crowds for all that time. Do we go for a ground share with another local club, in which case who? Eastleigh? Pompey? (It's been done before before you scream!) Reading? Or do we take a financial hit and operate with reduced crowds while the work took place?
     
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  11. AllotedTime

    AllotedTime Active Member

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    You make some good points, but you also use the example of Arsenal who had a capacity of 38k at Highbury for many, many years and were extremely successful nonetheless. It was that success, and consistently fighting for trophies and playing in the Champions League, that made them a brand.

    I'm not against redevelopment or indeed relocation (although i would personally hate it if we moved outside the city) but I don't think that the time is now.
     
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  12. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    We're into the era of 'every dollar counts' now, though, especially with the introduction of financial regulations. If we're a team that dreams of Europe, we need to have the revenue to support such an endeavor while staying on the right side of the rules. That has to be done in advance, or they won't let us join the party.

    Financially, this isn't a bad time, either; the new TV money is kicking in, interest rates are low if that's necessary, and if the UK is anything like North America right now, the companies who handle these sorts of large construction projects are in enough of a pinch that it might be a fair shade cheaper to build in the next two years than in the years to follow.
     
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  13. saintlyhero

    saintlyhero Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately it's success on the pitch which matters. Saints went from 15k at the dell to 30k at St Mary's without any sweat because they maintained there top flight status.
    Relegation showed the core support and the smaller away followings to be about 25k average.
    I think we need another couple of seasons before any action, but that doesn't stop us exploring the options. I'd favour reconstruction, but economically.
     
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  14. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

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    Would you be thinking of a cost benefit analysis by any chance? I think bankers know all about those - they may have even invented the procedure.
     
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  15. Channonfodder

    Channonfodder Rebel without a clue.....

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    Businesses plan for the future and I can foresee that if the payback time on extending the Stadium was 5 or 6 years then it might be worth doing to allow the club to expand whilst plans are laid for a new stadium. It surely takes years to go through the planning consents (there are bound to be loads of objections from local residents) and suchlike.
    The very fact that the Artwork for the face lifted St Marys was on the Season Ticket DVD must mean that it's under active consideration, surely? I wouldn't be surprised if plans were announced quite quickly- you can't accuse Nicola of excessive patience!
     
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  16. TheSecondStain

    TheSecondStain Needs an early night

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    What's that got to do with it..? Fashion has never required huge, dense populations. Well perhaps dense ones.

    In today's world of mass marketing and communications one doesn't need huge populations to become fashionable. In any case, the metropolitan part of Hampshire contains over a million people, so why can't Saints excite those..? Why do I continually read on here from supporters that declare that Saints can't do something when they clearly have ambitions to actually do so..? Are you afraid of the club becoming too successful or something..?
     
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  17. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

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    As the old saying goes: " If you buy cheap you buy twice".
     
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  18. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

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    Exactly right. Some of the online shops that look like big players are actually Joe Bloggs drop shipping from big boys ;) The modern era is all about visibility and brand awareness not history or tradition.

    As for the comment above talking about FFP. Does that not exclude things like stadiums improvements :) So the costs of moving or expanding would not count into the FFP assessments.

    I'm all for it. Saints are on the up. The new breed of fans are sheep, fashion followers, We can also encourage those who want to do something unfashionable. It's easy to sell yourself to different markets these days and make all sides think that they are all doing the same thing for the same reason :) It's no longer about 'real fans' and 'plastic fans'. It's not about bums on seats anymore. It's about people seeing bums on seats and hearing them make noise (scuse the phrasing there) and wanting to feel like they are a part of it whether they ever make it to a game or not. They support the side as much as someone with a season ticket. Some of these guys have shirts, duvets, curtains, watches, bags etc. They spend a lot of money. They feed the sky revenue that in turn comes back to our club.

    So yes we need people to see a big stadium. We need people to want to see that stadium and spend money on everything else as well while they are there.

    'Sports Tourism' is big business. Just look at the Man U crowd with people quite obviously on their 'one off day out' whether they are from England, Japan, Scandanavia, Central Europe or the 'new world'.

    p.s. I was from the last surge in Southampton support in the 80s. I am one of those Southampton fans who's father supports Pompey. Back then like now Saints were way above their rivals. A team on the up, a team attracting people from far and wide. There are many of us up North in my age group and it can happen again.

    Then finally look at those Chelsea gates in the Prem. from 18k right up to the present 40k!!! Did Ken Bates think 'Mmm This Chelsea Village malarky won't work'? Di he?
     
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  19. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    Exactly; the costs don't factor against you, but the increased revenues work in your favour.
     
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  20. MIsaints

    MIsaints Active Member

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    Last time we were in the PL tickets were hard to get. Already the top teams are selling out and even the not so top teams are getting close. More bums in seats means more money to spend and more buying things from the store. Are the teams at the top of the PL there because they have a big stadium with the additional money or do they have big stadiums because they are top? If we are to be a consistent top team and in Europe we have to have a bigger stadium. That alone will draw more people to the games and mean the seats will fill.
     
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