I'm glad you referred to your old post as I hadn't read it before. By heaven, you covered some ground in that one.
Don't know if it was built by the same company but it was definitely designed by the same people; The Miller Partnership. They've been responsible for a lot of projects with regard to English stadia: St Marys Stadium Pride Park Riverside Stadium Stadium of Light Britania Stadium King Power Stadium Ricoh Arena KC Stadium Darlington Arena
Barr Group built SMS and half the ones on that list. They have had a lot of legacy legal problems with a number of clubs (including Saints) for the poor quality of the work they did. Cheapest bid isn't always the best one. But St Mary's was certainly cheaply built and it shows.
Think we built what we could afford at the time. It works, that's all you say. Remember that we had a ground with only 15+k capacity at the time, so doubt we built up much equity to invest in the new ground.
I trust NC to make the right decision on this. The balance is, can you turn St Marys into a stadium which will satisfy all future demand or is it better to start afresh elsewhere? I doubt that we will ever need a Wembley 2 but I feel confident that if we had another 15k of capacity bolted on to the existing stadium we could make it worthwhile. Obviously the choice games would be very popular and for the less glamorous ties it would enable promotional offers to be made, kids for a quid etc, like we did in L1 sometimes. Getting folk along to the odd game and them seeing the great football we now play might lead to more commitment later. Also , assuming we don't weaken the squad over the summer, it's unlikely we shall start the season so poorly as this and so a higher win % and final position are IMO likely next season. Success breeds success. My gut feel is that a revamped St Marys would suffice- or am I not thinking positively enough?
When my children were young and I bought them new shoes I didn't buy them in the same size as the ones they had worn out as their feet had grown and would grow further. I feel the same way about St Mary's we have grown and we will grow even more so it is time for a larger crowd capacity stadium.
What is the % cost of adding 15K more seats to SMS compared to a new stadium with 47K seats? That is really the question. I don't know what the % would need to be to favour a new stadium over a remake but I'm sure NC does. Sometimes adding on can cost more than starting over. Especially if the quality of SMS is low. To upgrade and add 15K may be too high of % compared to a new one. Not a bad time to get a loan if you can though as the rates are very low. Being in the bank business, if NC needs one he will know the way and only take the right one. Helpful to have a bank man running the show. He knows money and I don't expect many bad decisions as it relates to that side.
According to the DVD, there seems to be an interest in a major waterfront development. The council would like that as it would be a joint venture to rejuvenate the area. That seemed to involve a massive refit to SMS...not set in stone, but that wouldn't be done during the summer break. Major disruption. When Arsenal did that some years back, they lost one whole side for most (all?) of one season.
Expanding the current stadium is relatively very expensive. Given the time that has passed since those earlier estimates I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that it would cost £5k a seat. If you get £40 per seat for 20 games a year that's £800 per seat. So it will take about 7 years to get your money back ... and that's assuming you sell them all of course. I don't think expanding the stadium is a priority at the moment. The current stadium is not ideal but it's effective for our current needs.
And how long do you measure current needs..? This season..? Next season..? 5 years from now..? This is what gets me about certain Saints fans. There's no future in some of you people. You can't suddenly have 20K extra seats within 10 minutes of needing them. You have to plan for the future. For pete's sake, get some imagination and ambition.
Words like imagination and ambition are just rhetoric. Why do you think there is a pressing need to expand the stadium at this time? Specifically, what benefits do you think it would bring and why are you so sure that those benefits would outweigh the risks?
I'd been through the whole thread, I usually do although not always and I can't claim to have ready every post in detail (especially not the long ones). To be fair though, you did reply directly to my comment on this topic in which I made points no-one else had so I don't think it's unreasonable for me to question your criticism.
Considering how so many complain about the roof leaking, Is that not going to cost a fair whack to sort? Or do people envisage Cortese hiring a chap to go up there with some mastic or felt and tar?
If you've been reading the thread then you'll notice there is a clear pair of themes running through it. There are who think that Saints can stick with the present capacity and somehow grow in profile and success, and there are those who believe that Saints cannot grow significantly without it. It just so happens that Cortese also holds the latter opinion. For my part, I stated long ago, on some long lost Saints forum with red pages, that I thought St Mary's was a lovely stadium, but too small, when it was just finished. If I had been on a forum when the plans were announced I would have said so at the time, because it was blindingly obvious to me [and others] that a 2.5K increase in capacity over the old Dell in a city that had grown significantly, was playing ultra safe in the ambition department. That sent a message out to other clubs - at best, we're going to stay as we are. I know Lowe and Co did their best, for a time, on broken promises of significant investment, because for a club with no money, Saints were doing comparatively well, and it would have been a huge commitment, for them back then. I completely accept that. But it isn't 2001 and this isn't Lowe & Co. anymore. This club has the financial clout to properly put itself on the sporting map and make it sustainable. All Cortese asks supporters to do is buy into his stated ambition. For a person of few published words, he has said it often enough, if supporters would care to take notice. And, if I judge the man correctly, he isn't a blower or boaster. He is very well qualified to do what he plans to do, and what he says he will do, gets done. But he'd like the backing of supporters, I'm sure. So when he says, I've done the research, and we need a bigger stadium to maintain our push to the top, what are you going to say..? NO..?
A new stadium would be a big investment. Considering St Mary's is fairly new anyway, and it was designed with expansion in mind, it doesn't really make sense to build a new one.
I think the stadium will stay where it is with a big development around it. However, altering the present stadium will probably mean a reduced capacity for a while...that has to be budgeted for and fans will have to put up with it. Such a rebuild cannot be done during the summer break.
