Good afternoon all. I am a student who is currently writing a dissertation on Football Clubs and their identity, using Cardiff City as a case study. If it is okay with you guys, I would just like to hear your views on the following topics regarding your club. Before you post, could you please write the following things which will help me out - your name can remain anonymous of course: 1) how long you have supported Cardiff City 2) How many games a season do you go to? The issues I would like to present to you are as follows: 1) How much influence did Sam Hammam have in creating a Welsh national identity for Cardiff City? 2) Do you feel associated with the English identity due to your involvement in their League system? 3) What are you feelings of Vincent Tan - do you agree with his commercialisation of the club? Kind regards, Charlie Oakley
3 Questions with a little try of a WUM ..................and i should know ...........................;o) But as i`m bored 1) The club was and is the biggest ,greatest Welsh football team before Sam ,remember you english had to change the name of the FA cup when we took it out of your country for the frst time . 2)It`s not called the English league,thought that was obvious 3)Anyone who can see the potensial that Cardiff City has and is prepared to put his millions in has my greatest thanks and respect , not rocket science is it Charlie ..........................;o) JH
It's not rocket science no, and there is no definitive answer, hence why the topics are broad and offer several opinions. Cardiff City has a unique case study which I am investigating, there's no WUM about it.
i have supported cardiff for about 10 years now, i go to home games so 23 games a season. 1) a difficult question for me to answer, as back then i was younger and not really taking much notice of the matters off the field! i think he tried to unite the whole of wales behind us, and try and get fans from different areas of wales to support us. also changed our badge to one which didnt look very welsh to me. its impossible to get fans from rival clubs to support a rival, even if they are in a higher league, as far as i'm aware hamman thought we had the potential to fill a 50, 60 thousand stadium if we could get to the PL and nick supporters off swansea and newport, though a good number of our fans come from areas like the valleys. 2) for me, not really, i get the 'them and us' feeling, like when english fans sing sheep chants and 'engerland'. also, on a regular basis we are told that we are taking up the place of an english team (a system we have been a part of for 70, 80 years). in your question it says 'in their league system' which sort of sums up my thoughts, despite the fact we were invited to join, some people will never accept welsh teams in an 'english' league but thats their problem. i do support english teams in the champions league though, its just the fans of teams in the mould of leeds, QPR and so on that tend to moan about it. 3) on the subject of tan, and the commercialisation, well what do you mean? the badge and kit change? neither will make us more successful and marketable in the far east, which is the reason it took place. whoever happens to be successful will sell the most shirts, not a colour assosciated with success, as we're told. we will be in the premiership next year because of the money he has put in as a result of forcing the rebrand on the club, but something is missing now with cardiff city. its not the same club to me any more. some fans would rather tan shove his money up his ass and let us go into admin and rebuild, some would happily take the money and play in pink if it meant PL football. the club is run as a business and must move with the times, man u, newcastle, spurs etc are all run as businesses, in fact almost all are, and tan is no different, he is in it for kudos and money, same as most other foreign owners. this means we get a higher quality of player, and PL football, but at a cost of our history and tradition. like i said before, some would bite your hands off, some would tell you to shove it. i'm in between, i'm sort of happy to go along with it, but i'm not as passionate a fan as i was before, i dont think anyone is really.
1. Cardiff is Welsh through and through and that has been noted for a long time before Sam, we don't need and haven't had anybody not Welsh making a difference to that. 2. I truly feel it adds something to the games not being an English club. We've been here for a long time, longer than some English clubs, so of course we feel just as much a part of it as any other club within it. 3. We would be in a bit of a sorry situation now if it wasn't for Tan, the worry is I don't think he gets the passion of the fans quite yet. But hopefully he is learning and will resist making too many changes so that we are no longer the same club. I don't regard a kit change as being so dramatic as others, but there is a limit, at this time I am nowhere near that limit. I believe it as much a dream for Tan to get to the PL as it is for the fans, but for very different reasons, the fans will always be here until the club is no-more, Tan will not! Early 60's as regards to how long, seems a long time ago now.
Hi Charlie 1. Was there all through the early ninetees when I started watching Cardiff, we have always been a proud Welsh team - However Sam was influential in raising our status and attracting more fans to Ninian Park. 2. In a way. I love the added dimension it gives to rivalries - the '1-0 to the sheep s******s' chants, the 'pop bank, do the Seaman' back in 2002, etc etc. I love being able to give stick to rival sets of fans in a harmless but funny way, and find some of the chants thrown back at us equally amusing. As a previous poster noted, we were invited into the leage many man decades ago and we are part of the english football structure. But that doesnt make it feel like any less of a Welsh club. 3. Very, very difficult. For decades I've waited for the year we finally make it to the premier league, and if that does happen this year then as a club we owe him a massive debt of gratitude. However, there is still a (fairly large) part of me that doesnt feel like its Cardiff City out there. We are, and always have been, the Bluebirds. Its part of our culture. To me, changing our kit from blue to red and thinking of changing our names to the dragons or whatever the hell was suggested is akin to somebody walking into Liverpool, renaming the Kop and changing their kit colour to Green. To some, a small detail but to me playing in blue was who we were. I will, however, revert to my original point - he (it would seem) has had a large part in us finally reaching the promised land. And for that, I am very greatful!! Hope this is semi relevant and I havent gone too far off topic!
1) How much influence did Sam Hammam have in creating a Welsh national identity for Cardiff City? very litle if not none. 2) Do you feel associated with the English identity due to your involvement in their League system? It's a league system under which the English FA preside. 3) What are you feelings of Vincent Tan - do you agree with his commercialisation of the club? All clubs are commercial interests, VT has taken it to a higher level for Cardiff City, already done by the likes of all the bigger clubs and some smaller ones. Sorry but I think this is a poorly disguised WUM.
I am merely a student trying to obtain views and opinions for my dissertation. Check the QPR and Pompey Boards - i've asked questions regarding their clubs too.
Then you still have my opinions, supported the bluebirds for 40+ years. Get to games when I can but no so many since moving to Germany 3 years ago.
Since I moved to Cardiff as en eighteen year old, 27 years ago. I attended a few games a season until four years ago. I've been a season ticket holder since then. 1. He did indeed try to bear some influence. There was a lot of flag waving, the St David's flag appeared in the background for a while but most people just thought it was jingoistic nonsense, particularly as it was coming from a Lebanese bloke. 2. No. If anything we like to be a thorn in the side of the English identity. I know I speak for myself, but that's half the fun. To be honest, I think the English like having us there as well, again because it's half the fun. 3. Football sold its soul years ago. I would go and watch them even if they were suddenly called Uncle Tan's Special Satay Sauce, although it doesn't quite roll of the tongue. It's a football match for heaven's sake. The idea of 'tradition' is, frankly, bollocks. All tradition is invented, just as a new one has been invented recently for the club. This move too will become part of the club's 'history'. Premiership football in the Capital City of Wales is important and I don't think anyone should underestimate how massive it could be for the place and its people. It is, in my opinion, more important than devolution, a move that I was passionately for. As for this being a WUM. I think sometimes we should take things at face value and give honest answers rather than being spiky and defensive. Now **** off.
Hamman took the club from the 4th division to the championship, which gets my respect, but I don't like the way he ran the dodgy finances which is still a burden on the club today. We are a part of the Football league set up, its not just English as Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport County, Merthyr Tydfil and Colwyn Bay will tell you. I am a big supporter of Mr Tan and what he is trying to achieve, a real business man with vision, we will always be Cardiff city and changing the colour of the shirts has not reduced the support, if anything it has enhanced it and next years season ticket sales will back that up. Good luck to him and us. Hope this helps and good luck with your dissertation, hope you get a result. We have certainly had one when Mr Tan came onboard.
Followed City since the mid seventies. Currently season ticket holder and occassional away traveller. 1. Sam understood the passion of City fans and the strong Welsh identity. I think he relates the sense of identity to similarities in his homeland where Lebanon has always been shadowed by it's bigger neighbour Syria but still retains it's unique character. Did he influence a Welsh national identity for Cardiff City? Not really but he may have attempted to reinforced it. 2. We were invited to play in the English leagues many years ago. We are nowadays hoping to play in the Barclays not English Premier League next season. We are a club currently in the Npower not English Championship. Can you see what I'm implying? The league might as well be referred to as The Corporate Sponsorship Name League. 3. Isn't everything in life today commercialised? Even Christmas? There is a narrow line between commercialisation, which is seen as progressive and forward thinking in the minds of some, and exploitation which has negative connotaions. Like many organisations we are a club who financially are grateful to Vincent Tan for giving us a lifeline. Should he make a profit out of the club if he eventually moves on good luck to him, no one else seemed interested in saving us.
45 years a fan......when I lived in wales as a young 'un, I attended about 10 matches per season....now none since living in Germany and other faraway places. 1. Sam tried to create his brand and eventually failed and left the club in dire straits. 2. Cannot comment much more than ITI and GLAm...right on the nail. certainly don't feel English and never will but agree we have a right to be in these leagues. 3, Mr Tan has, indeed, as said by others, created a new tradition. This DOES NOT take away the previous history and traditions, it merely starts a new phase. (Had we gone into liquidation, that would also not have changed history and traditions......and this route was more likely to make a complete break with the 'old' Cardiff City......more so that VT's moves). VT has every right to change things to try and make his money back and fi this means that he thinks he will get better income for himself by these changes- and not necessarily through the club profits but maybe by shirt sales and TV rights in Malaysia- it is eminently sensible for him to do so. We as fans gain success as a by-product...not forgetting survival too. Most clubs are like this nowadays...ever since the move to stock market share capital by the larger clubs. it is an expensive game nowadays with the big money not coming from the fans. Thus, EVERY club is moving to commercialisation....they must or die. Professional football is a business and fans don't have much buying power and control. 50,000 fans at 400 quid a season ticket is 20 million......a drop in the ocean in the turnover of the big clubs that get this level of support. If 50% leave coz they don't like something, the loss in turnover is not huge and there are likely to be new fans to replace most of them. it's a bit ****e for the old ones but it's good business.
