I don't agree that that almost most on the right would admire her ... Colin she went mad and have ben proven beyond any doubt that she had turned into a dictator if you were to list the resignations under her you may be surprised and these were true blue tories. As for her record it was always strategic ... I think if you asked the peoples of NI and vast areas of this country then you may get a understandable mouthful. Scargill regardless of his character and his political beliefs today as the leader of the Socialist Labour Party must surely be laughing at how this all turned out. She will be remembered as a strong PM by many but like most politicians she forgot who exactly she was working for. We were all fed chocolate biscuits to keep us quiet and overtime it worked perfectly. The United Kingdom died many many years ago and Union Jack was replaced by the I'm alright Jack. Here endth the lesson
Comprehensively this, Undoubtedly there was much to be done on arrival '79. To be fair there was only one way that could have gone anyway considering the situation, but still she must assume some credit for taking on the at the time the over powering Unions. However, she went way too far in the humiliation and devastation she caused them, there was no conciliation at all. She was in fact to my mind, the first of the "out sourcers", there must have been a way of keeping staple industries and at the same time making them productive. These battles definitely then based her thinking towards the North which to be frank wasn't one of laissez faire it was more one of "couldn't give a rat's arse". Us Londoner's were revelling in the chocolate biscuit and Harry Enfield's parody Loadsamoney was far too close to reality for comfort. The Falklands was a disgrace in that it was a totally avoidable war, a mobilisation of a small fleet would have been more than enough to have Galtieri back tracking and not trying an opportunist move. We should remember that at the time the newly formed SDP was romping ahead in the polls and a more central view for political parties and electorate was seemingly now available. Tha National fervour which overtook the Nation then took over in 83. I don't place the blame of the last 10 years financial meltdown at her door, they may well have been her policies and mantra that were in place but those that pushed the button i.e Messers Blair and Brown must be judged on that one. Margaret Thatcher inherently wasn't that nice a person, her father had provided a strictest of upbringings with probably little room for love, if I had to boil my own feelings for MT down to 2 phrases it would be a lack of compassion and too dismissive of other's opinion. However, MT died an awful long time ago along with the Great Britain we all look back on and yearn for. One last thing - Her Premiership oversaw the best decade of music!!!!!!!!!!
Great post, as was the one from DT. Except that balls about 80s music of course. The more I am forced by media coverage to think about her, the more ambivalent I become. As a person/character, I doubt I could have lasted 2 minutes with that patronising voice and manner. In the early 80s an American mates parents were staying with me - rich, well-educated, and very liberal New England. The state of the nation address was on TV being given by Reagan - they could not sit in the room, they were so embarrassed by him. I felt the same way when Thatcher was hectoring foreigners - just cringe making. Some of the economic stuff needed to be done, but it was nearly all done in the wrong way. Privatization being a prime example. My wife works for an ex public sector company - one of the biggest - and its still run on public sector lines - automatic pay rises for sitting in the same job for years regardless of your or company performance, waste everywhere, management consultants there permanently - because they still have the old management. Her big vision, a property owning, share holding democracy has come back to bite as Dave says, but at least it was a clear and relatively coherent vision. I haven't got the faintest idea what any of the current bunch are trying to achieve. And all the time the Germans quietly got on with it to show that you can have a prosperous country with strong workers rights and a better quality of life without anything like as much conflict and hatred. The big difference that I can see with them is that they are prudent (i.e. don't like credit) and investors are not in it for a quick win - driven by short term share price and dividends like the US and UK, which creates the volatility in the system, the Germans leave their investments in companies for years, expecting reasonable returns while the firms grow in a sustainable way. Rambling here, but one last thing. The culture that she and Reagan helped create, the everyone can be rich, our obligations are only to ourselves, the market will solve everything culture, have had an interesting side effect. Charitable giving, which these types of politicians assume will fill the gaps as they shrink state welfare spending, has actually gone down as a proportion of the incomes of the well off in the US. Whilst the poorer are actually giving a higher percentage now than 30 years ago.
The problem is that the 80s mantra of anyone can go out and make money is a direct cause of the wealth divide. What percentage of go-getters were making money from exports? Those that weren't, where was the money coming from? From the rest of the population of course. The whole era has heralded a mentality of not bettering yourself but those around you; of bitterness towards those better off and resentment towards those worse off; of complex economics that are driven by itself and the instilled greed exemplified by maximising profits rather than charging a fair price. We backed the notion of diminishing production in favour of moving to a skills base. Ironically, the disintegration of society would have made a production based economy more valid since the "fair for all" education system is geared towards producing average quality in knowledge and learning (unless you've got enough stashed from the 80s to pay for education). We are now overrun with managers that haven't put in the years to gain either the knowledge of respect required (preferably both). This drives up costs because every single employee needs one manager it seems. People that resent paying taxes into the state that gave them the opportunity to earn large amounts of money in the first place (sorry Stan). A welfare state that is a disincentive to work. A ridiculous property market that booms and busts every 15-20 years that arbitrarily offers those who can get on the ladder at a trough a chance to build folios off the rent paid by those that miss it (thus creating a further wealth divide). Thatcher's council house option was hardly better, being a lottery for those who happened to be in residence of one at the time. This isn't only Thatcher but also Blair and Cameron who smile hollow smiles at the cameras while caring for nothing more than staying in power. You couldn't fit a paper towel between the lot of them (although MT actually deserves credit for not giving a **** about what people thought and doing what she believed). They whole government model has figured out that the middle classes determine future government (with a bit of spin in the tabloids for the politically disinterested masses). I hate myself for actually having a care about at least some of the money-grabbing issues (although am still proud of leaving a job because they wanted to make me ruthless). I also hate football. Rant over.
Hear hear - people have very short memories of the state this country was in thanks to unproductive lazy workers driven onwards by radical and idiotic union leaders. IMF loans, currency controls, 3 day week, rubbish and dead bodies on the streets - the country was a basket case. Whatever the ultimate outcome and I do believe there was an unnecessary fanaticism about some of her policies - the option in 1979 to do nothing was NOT an option.....I would love to know what all her critics would have suggested was the alternative to the tough and necessary medicine she prescribed....let Harold Wilson and his cronies continue to have beer and sandwiches with the unions and let them continue to run the country.....Socialism - great until you run out of others people money to spend...its worked out well for other countries in Europe eh????....
As David Cameron has just said, would anyone ever want to go back to the days of 'State owned everything' , 'strikes', 'unions' and the rest stuff she changed. Whether you like her or not she changed this country for the better. Ask any of those Eastern Europeans if they want to go back to communism? Thanks to Thatcher those people have gone from a security state to a modern society. Without a doubt she was the best PM since Churchill and people forget that she doubled the size of the economy and modernised industry in the UK. Not to mention the foundations she laid down which Labour tried to ruin. The biggest laugh of all was those 'twunts' on TV last night in Brixton and other places blaming Thatcher for everything and none looked older than 20 and she gave up politics 23 years ago? Muppets who know nothing. At the end of the day she made mistakes like all PM's but don't forget she could do nothing without the say of Parliament which went to votes. Those voters (MP's) were put in office by us the people.
Why sorry Matt? Think I've said on here before I'm all in favour of progressive taxation, its one of the true marks of civilization. Tax dodgers are just as bad as benefits cheats in my book, and there is undoubtedly more money in sorting the tax dodgers out. For me, high tax just gives me increased incentive to earn more, which is good for everyone as I will pay still more tax. It's not the driving force in my life, but I refuse to be embarrassed about this. What I do resent is poor quality in return for what I pay. Sometimes that is major things - education and state run health for example (the sacred cow that is the NHS is a complete balls up - in my job I see a lot of healthcare around the world, and I would prefer to be treated in nearly any other Western European country. And I used to be a director of an NHS hospital trust) sometimes it is small things - I recently got caught speeding (fair cop) and was offered the conditional speeding awareness course. Dutifully filled in my forms, wrote the cheque and sent it to the council. More than month later I phone them to ask what is going on - I haven't heard anything and they haven't cashed my cheque. The perfectly nice lady on the other end said 'we are dealing with a backlog' and couldn't tell me when they would get to me. In the meantime my 80 quid sits there earning nothing for anybody. Obviously minuscule interest on my cash, but multiply that by however many others are in the backlog....... Nice rant by the way.....
Matt beautiful ... "We are now overrun with managers that haven't put in the years to gain either the knowledge of respect required (preferably both). This drives up costs because every single employee needs one manager it seems." If a managers meeting is called in the offices where i work from 23 departmental staff 3 remain and me (as I am banned from such meetings for my refusal to use acronyms) Have an erection on this: http://www.frenchpropertylinks.com/frenchpropertyextradetails.asp?property=TNTCAST65000E&site=rel
Have never hated a person I never met so much in all my life - one good reason I moved out of the UK. I'm keeping off all news channels until she's long buried as well, just seeing her cruel stuck-up face and mean supercillious cackle on the TV, makes me want hurl every thing I have at it, and seeing this thread on here makes me want it deleted before I kick in every device I open this Forum on. Please Mods - DELETE!
Have you read the thread Jock? It's excellent, lots of strongly held views, but no pointless bitching between posters - nobody is going to change their opinion based on what's written here. Plus we get DTs increasing use of the bold button and setting himself up as an agent immobilier. Thats FYI, BTW.
I've always had it that the collective term for management is a 'lack' in much the same way as it is a 'wunch' of bankers...
that is a good point , lots of different views on her but posters not arguing with others opinions anyone who disagrees with my opinion is wrong though
Nice looking house but nothing else will be there other than a nice looking house. I went out to France last year to see a mate of mine and he had a nice house in a nice village but most of the time it was a 'ghost town' with nothing open, even the one shop was shut most of the time. France does have some nice houses but crap for 24hr living.
DING Dong the Witch is Dead is on track to reach No.1 in the UK charts next week as part of a musical anti-tribute to Margaret Thatcher. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=p5mEKuS-RlvtZOK0o2XXaQ&bvm=bv.44990110,d.d2k
It's been interesting reading, probably revealed more about posters on the site than any other thread.
The more distasteful remarks unfortunately probably say as much about the contributor as they do about Mrs Thatcher. It is startling to see how many Champagne Socialists there are around nowadays - such as that clown son of the Pink Floyd chappie that swung from the cenotaph during the riots, claiming not to have known what it was - that are likely the creation of the infiltration into all corners of society and establishments by trendy lefties. [It would not surprise me if it were proven that the proliferation of such thinking came as a direct consequence of Thatcherism and the trendiness that came from the so-called alternative comedians and pop stars of the 1980s and beyond.] Perhaps one of Maggie's unintended legacies has been the creation of such monsters? How is it that left-liberal politicians can be such ardent adversaries of grammar schools and the like, yet will move heaven and earth to get their offspring into the best schools? Why do they think it is OK to lay on the best possible education for their spawn and yet deny the same opportunity to the rest of us? Why are they so opposed to selection by ability and yet be content with what we now have, which is selection by ability to pay? It is a scandal that the masses appear to accept with little outrage, perhaps because they've swallowed the lie that grammar schools are only for the posh and therefore must be destroyed. Incidentally, Thatcher failed to support grammar schools too, despite the rhetoric.
Thatcher never achieved a popular vote majority in any of the three elections she won. So that's any majority consensus out the window for starters. How old were you when Thatcher came to power? I was 27 and clearly remember pre Thatcher Britain, it was a kinder and better place. You and your family may have benefitted but others had their lives and futures destroyed. People died, people killed themselves. Human life is more important than market forces.
