I would also advise against expressing pro thatcher views out in public. jck[/QUOTE] Are you suggesting that I would be physically threatened by the anti-Thatcher mob if I expressed my respect for Mrs Thatcher in public? If you are then this is precisely the kind of attack on democracy, as employed by Scargill, that Mrs Thatcher fought so vehemently against. Why should I not be able to express my views in public in safety?
Just what is this supposed to mean jck? It sounds very much like someone saying that I can say what I want to say, but if you disagree with me you are not allowed to speak. This is the attitude that both the extreme left and extreme right take. Many people would question why Scargill didn't want to ballot his members before taking them out on strike. Maybe he wasn't confident that they would want to follow his far left leanings and why the mining union was split. Certainly it has been proved that when he has stood for election in national politics he has been firmly rejected every time. "I honestly do believe that Arthur, in his own world, believes that the NUM is here to afford him the lifestyle that he's become accustomed to" Not my words, but those of a NUM general secretary. It seems to me that he set about creating trouble in the UK and you should not be surprised if the elected government of the day reacts against it.
reading most of the posts on this thread--admittidly a small pool of people--its clear that the pursuit of selfishness and the justification of such--all themes close to thatchers heart is regarded as 'success' --is it coincidence that you are southern england products ?--a very different take can be found on forums from other parts of the country-- i lived and suffered under her govt policies-- 34 years of monetary policies--and where are we ? Spunked off oil n gas from the north sea, an ageing nuclear industry, that if its replaced , has to be imported, since the closure of most british heavy engineering, oh yeah we have a few windmills, the french wisely built for long term-we now 'import' leccy from them--apart from call centres, a few niche industries--oh and those fine players of financial instruments, what is left of a once industrial giant-- the germans had a similar economy--they still have--seems to be doing pretty ok as well--- here the Last Waltz at the Ritz is about to start...
Hope you are excluding the Call Centres created by New Labour in their heartlands - surely these must be real jobs?
I think it is more that a lot of people in certain places would find your comments to be very insensitive. Try it in a Derbyshire pit village. I don't think it would mean that you would be physically threatened by the 'anti-Thatcher mob' (by which you possibly mean: 'people who have a very different perception to you of what she did and how she did it'). You'd might be told to remove yourself from the vicinity and fornicate, however.
I expect there to be an orgy of violence and vandalism in London and other towns and cities next Wednesday as the anti-Maggie zealots express their pleasure at her passing. No doubt it will be passed off as just people expressing their democratic rights by the usual suspects. I wonder if I will be safe to walk the streets?
Is it not insensitive towards me by those persons who are dancing and celebrating Mrs Thatcher's death? The veiled message is that if I am not sensitive towards them, they will become violent towards me. But then these double standards seem to be par for the course these days.
if you wave a rag at a bull --it will most likely charge you-- at football matches, outside grounds do you look for likely people to antagonise and see if they will react? do you posses common sense or do you suffer from autism ?
I take a small amount of umbrage to that statement, rudebwoy. I am certainly no fan of Thatcher, but equally I am no fan fan of 'the unions'. Together they represent all that is (or should that be 'was') wrong with British society - two factions, poles apart in beliefs, both as selfish as each other, both fighting for what they saw as 'right' - and both actually wrong. The power brokers of the unions claimed to represent the interests of their members, but were notorious for telling said members what their interests were rather than asking them what their interests were. In others words, they bullied them into agreeance - when they actually sought agreeance that is. The same applied to Thatcher - she most certainly did not have 100% party backing for her actions, but bullied it out of those who wavered. Where she was right? Something had to be done about the situation - had she not done what she did, a good number of our youngsters may not even be here today. Fair play to her, she had a plan, implemented it and saw it through - she really can't be faulted for that. Where was she wrong? In the first instance, like Cameron and IDS today, she had a blinkered view of whom the 'enemy' actually were. As they appear to equate being unemployed to being a feckless waster yet must realise that not to be true, she almost certainly had to have realised that not every 'worker' was at fault - Scargill himself virtually 'told' her that - yet she chose to attack them en masse. Secondly, having laid waste to Britain's industrial heartland - the Industrial De-revolution if you like - she really chose to do nothing about the devastation she had created. Leaving communities with 90% unemployment and no hope for the future was unforgivable - little better than the world walking away from the Ethiopian famine or the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bomb victims really. I am certainly not one of the 'products of southern england' you appear to despise. Yes, I spent some time living there - hence my support for Watford - but I was brought up in a working class family in Leith - the Edinburgh equivalent to Glasgow's Gorbals at the time. The school I attended had to close due to some local 'dissidents' setting fire to the roof & there simply was no money for repairs - and that was when my father, a railway worker, decided enough was enough. He set about improving his lot in life, and instilled the same attitude in his family - and we have all worked hard to get where we all are today, without sitting back with our hands out expecting to be looked after by whatever State we chose to live in. So I have just as much right and reason to despise the Thatcher type leaders of this world as you and others do. Whilst I am happy to voice my opinions of them, I haven't let their actions burn up inside me and develop into twisted hate - I, like many other posters here, have simply got on with my life and made the best of it that I could. And that's what everyone should be doing IMO.
I abhor that behaviour as much as you. These aren't the people I was speaking of. They aren't an anti-Thatcher mob', so much as a 'let's use this as the latest excuse to have a bit of a larf and see if it all kicks off' mob. I doubt that they'd have any useful contribution to make to a discussion about Thatcher's polices, if indeed they know who she was. It would be wise to steer clear of them- I would too. There is quite a sizable portion the population (Guardian ICM poll says 34%*) who felt that she was 'bad for the country', and amongst those some who feel that their lives were scarred. They are the ones I was talking about. * 50% responded 'good for the country' ; 11% neither good nor bad; 5% don't know. She certainly polarised the country, then as now. I am reminded of my mother and my mother-in-law, RIP both. Mum thought the sun shone out of Thatcher's a**e and ma-in-law was a gentle, I suppose Christian socialist is the best way to describe her. Both church goers. Both wonderful women. In the early days of getting to know each other they were both bemused and a bit scandalised to discover that they held such opposing views. 'How can this be possible? She seems so normal', you could see each of them thinking. They quickly learned not to go anywhere near politics. Perhaps we all should too?
For me the main problem with some of her policies was that they a)never took account of the bigger picture, b) never considered the implications in the much longer term or c)threw the baby out with the bath water - you can of course level that accusation at most PMs. However here are 3 where the damage is still being seen today in my opinion: Council house sales - the receipts were ploughed into tax breaks and buying off the traditional working class in the south and middle england. They should have been used to build more housing so that future generations would ahve the chance of buying affordable housing - look at the crisis now. MT's fault? You betcha Privatisation - the belief that the common man should own shares in British industry / utilities thereby making them more cost effective and efficient may have seemed like a good idea at the time but did she ever stop to cosnider that 25 years later our prime resources would be owned by foreign companies therefore making us reliant on overseas services rather than having control over them ourselves? Nope - still an issue that causes untold problems today - yep. Destruction of British industry. What do the current economic powerhouses have in common? Large manufactuiring bases and plenty of natural resources. What did we do with all of ours? Ah yes, Thatcher destroyed them all. We can slate the unions till the cows come home but the bottom line is if she'd given it a bit more thought she could have faced them down and still ensured that we had a thriving manufactuiring base and other heavy industry and exploitation and production of resources such as coal and steel. We then wouldn't have had to rely on imports and would be far more prosperous as a nation. It's no wonder that our balance of payments is now more skewed than Man City's transfer and wage budget. Don't get me started on what she did to destroy communities and promote this really nasty culture of I'm all right Jack so sod everyone else. Could other governments have reversed the damage? Yes probably but she pushed it so far it would have taken years to put it right and nobody wants to take those decisions when they're depending on votes to keep them in power. These are just opinions - unlike one or two others pontificating on this subject across various threads and wider media I don't consider my personal thoughts to constitute facts......
Thought your last line spoiled a good post. Facts are facts and opinions are opinions - some people may try to suggest their opinions are facts but it is easy to spot the difference. I have seen some facts quoted and lots of opinions - both are valid I am quite surprised by that poll especially as it is in the left leaning Guardian so is unlikely to be biased pro-Thatcher. My guess would have been that a small majority would have been in the bad camp. People who benefited from her changes have tended to move on whilst those hurt by them naturally find that harder.
Well you can going around shouting how much you admired Hitler in public if you like but if you do then you underestimate the hostility that will provoke, so I tell you that despite knowing a public demonstration of your affection for her will cause extreme reactions then go ahead. In fact you might get arrested for inciting a riot. jck
I think the British are more tolerant than you give them credit for on the whole. There will always be some thugs who get violent but they are a small minority.
Name me one other person who has created this hatred from so many millions of people...surely you can sense this is more than just a dislike here. I am sure that the French people were very tolerant leading up to the revolution but you supress the poor at your own peril. jck
Probably the most sensible post in the history of Not606. It would seem we share a similar background BB, and while your predictions may suck out loud, there is nothing to disagree with there.
Oh dear - still angry over the way your elected government has treated its citizens? Spend 40 minutes of your day watching this - http://www.upworthy.com/this-filmma...ny-moment-but-he-kept-the-camera-rolli?c=upw1 - and reflect upon how much more brutal they could actually have been. Things may have been bad here, but never this bad.
