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So what Is Wrong With Grant Holt?

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by Norfolkbhoy, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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    I can see this, as long as they retain the current squad and add wisely to it. Goals galore in Rodriguez and Lambert, mobility from Lallana and invention from Gaston Ramirez <ok>

    Having said that, assuming we survive, once CH has brought in his (presumably) long list of Lambert era replacements, who's to say we won't do likewise?
     
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  2. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    I think they need to considerably improve their defence.

    Ironically, I see their position being much the same as ours last summer!

    I do think they've got good attacking players and being bankrolled ensures they can invest more heavily than us.
     
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  3. Home on the range canary

    Home on the range canary Well-Known Member

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    Their defence seems to have improved considerably over the course of the season, two to three quality acquisitions, which I guess is likely, and they can start to consolidate their place in the PL next season. It is difficult to imagine them being in difficulty next season
     
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  4. canary_max

    canary_max Well-Known Member

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    saints are also ahead of us in terms of their academy, so they will have the odd youth player coming through, like Luke Shaw
     
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  5. Tony_Munky_Canary

    Tony_Munky_Canary Well-Known Member

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    The way I look at it, a couple of months ago the owners of Saints decided they had a choice to make; they could either take a gamble and follow the path trodden by Swansea in bringing in a continental manager playing an attractive continental style of play that is easy on the eye and has collected much praise from all corners of the media and neutral fans alike, or they could follow the path we took by sticking with their British manager who may have been likely to have seen the "difficult second season" in the way Hootun did and decided to grind out results by putting safety, caution and top-flight survival as priorities above all else. The Koo Pee Arr model wasn't even an option being as expensive and massively unsuccessful as it has been so the owners decided to take the brave option and go for Swansea's continental route - the one that hit 40 points and safety with ten games to go and won the club it's first piece of silverware in it's history, as opposed to our ghastly to watch desperate crawl to drag ourselves over the finishing line, a slog which still hangs somewhat in the balance.

    Obviously Laudrup and Pochettino are different men, and there is no guarantee that going down the continental route will be a success as it has for the Swans, however I actually think they have been very brave in taking the direction they did, and I now applaud the decision they have taken, despite initially finding the whole thing short-sighted and incredibly harsh on Nigel Atkins.

    Looks to have been an inspired decision thus far, they have picked up some fantastic results under the new guy by playing exciting, attractive football and as has already been mentioned they have one of the best academies in the country for producing talented youngsters - as well as a successful overseas scouting network - and I have to say things are certainly looking pretty rosey for them right now, a darned sight rosier than they are for us anyway.
     
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  6. oldcanariesfan

    oldcanariesfan Well-Known Member

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    Expect incoming missile from Beefy Tony !
     
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  7. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there's much to disagree with - I think even Beef will admit that the football is not good to watch...

    The only thing to really quibble over is how much "rosier" their position is. I'd say that right now it is approximately three points and four goals... Which isn't an unassailable amount.

    The real test of "rosiness"is yet to come - I think, come the summer, we may well end up fighting over similar transfer targets (assuming we stay up - which bookies seem to think is more likely than at any point so far this season). If so, that will be a real test - they will probably offer bigger wages, but we will offer a modicum of extra security having had the tenuous point of being in the Prem a year longer. I'm interested to see how we do.
     
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  8. Norfolkbhoy

    Norfolkbhoy Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I accept your points regarding the Saints academy i would also point out that had GH not missed the penalty we would currently be ahead of them so it is on small margins they are ahead of us this season.

    Saints also have the advantage of being able to spend £8m on a striker LAST year and their squad has been assembled at a somewhat greater cost than ours. It will be interesting to see how well we do in terms of both results and style when the Wolf and any other summer signings come into the fold.

    i think it is all about making incremental progress. Stay up this season, buy some better players. Stay up next season buy players, invest in the stadium. Finish higher up the table and make ourselves one of the established sides in the PL able to be looking up the table rather than looking over our shoulders at this time of the season every year.
     
    #88
  9. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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    For a club of our size and stature, with no zillionaire backers, this is indeed the path ahead. One thing that I'd like cleared up - at the end of the season we will be free of external debt, correct? After 3 (fingers crossed) years of Prem football, I believe McNally suggested at ground enlargement to circa 35,000?
    Well, to remain in the league, we will need to invest the lion's share of TV money on players and wages just to compete and survive.
    So where does the money for ground enlargement come from without starting a new cycle of external debt?
    Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.
     
    #89
  10. Home on the range canary

    Home on the range canary Well-Known Member

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    I thought the expansion plans had been put on hold, that money needed to be invested into the squad to begin with. Although, there was some talk of a temporary stand to block out the disgusting hotel and add about a 1000 extra seats. Well managed borrowing to fund ground expansion is not a problem, it's when there is a lack of thought and acknowledgement of how to fund it should income dramatically decrease following a relegation, as long as the 7 year plan is updated and realistic we may well need binoculars to see what is happening on the pitch
     
    #90

  11. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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    First I've heard or read about that? Was there a link to this short term proposal at all?
     
    #91
  12. Home on the range canary

    Home on the range canary Well-Known Member

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    I may have imagined it, but I have a very clear memory of a temporary stand being proposed for this season, but for various reasons it couldn't happen, but was to be revisited for the following season. No link, sorry
     
    #92
  13. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    Most of it could be covered by calling it after a sponsor as in the 'Jarrold' as an example. Maybe one of the Broads boating firms and if we assume that we will still be in the Prem - massive exposure on Worldwide TV for not a lot of outlay!!!! <ok>
     
    #93
  14. Norfolkbhoy

    Norfolkbhoy Well-Known Member

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    If we stay up for the next two seasons you are looking at a pretty decent chunk of cash. I can see us spending a bit over the Summer but maybe only one or two "expensive" signings with the balance of the budget going on wages and bonuses and some going into the reserves to fund stadium expansion.

    Now is not the worst time in the world to be borrowing as debt is relatively cheap and if the cost of servicing the debt is more than covered by increased gate and commercial revenues then it makes business sense to borrow the money and invest. It is certainly riskier than using cash reserves to fund the expansion but I think that if we were to save up before taking the plunge we will be waiting decades. I suppose it is akin to taking on a mortgage to fund your house purchase - riskier than using cash but if you are confident you can service the debt then the obvious solution.
     
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  15. ilovedelia

    ilovedelia Well-Known Member

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    I don't know the cost of building a new stand, but some very rough sums comes up with:

    7000 extra seats @ £50 (casual) x 19 home games = £6,650,000 per year. pay back over 3 years near as dam it £20m.
    7000 extra seats @ £500 (Season tickets) x 19 home games = £3,500,000 per year. pay back over 3 years just over £10m.
     
    #95
  16. Tony_Munky_Canary

    Tony_Munky_Canary Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget all the extra merchandise, programmes and pies that we'll sell as well with the additional people coming through the door <ok>
     
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  17. canary_max

    canary_max Well-Known Member

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    i think mcnally said it would cost something like £2,500 per extra seat, so for 6k = £15M
    like you say a 3 or 4 year payback on the initial outlay.
    weren't wolves rebuilding one of their stands last season? i'm not sure what there attendances are like this season in the championship, i would expect down on last year, but it shows the risk associated for clubs of our ilk. it's a good debate.
     
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  18. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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    Well, it won't be much use where they're heading! Maybe we could do a deal with 'Mad' Marc Tierney going the other way - just like the Morison/ Becchio swap <laugh>
     
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  19. Norfolkbhoy

    Norfolkbhoy Well-Known Member

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    What you also need to factor in is the extra corporate revenues if a stand is redeveloped. Throw in the extra boxes plus a restaurant and some conference facilities and you are adding a pretty decent revenue stream. All costs money initailly but the payback is pretty swift and once its there it can be used for decades.

    Personally the only way I can see us keeping at the top is by investing in the stadium to get more cash which can be ploughed into the team. given that even if we went down next season we would have three seasons of parachute payments which would I imagine allow all our expenive wage contracts to be run down and let the new stand pay for itself. Even if we were in the Champoinship I can see no problem getting 30k through the turnstiles.
     
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  20. ilovedelia

    ilovedelia Well-Known Member

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    Yes your memory is correct, it was muted at one point. I have a feeling Health and Safety might have had a say, but that might be my memory being a bit skewed!
     
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