So what happens if ME decides he has had enough of loosing so much money year in, year out with you guys and decides to cut his losses and walk away? That "internal" debt would become become a massive issue to anyone else thinking of taking over and you would go bankrupt. Your rather flippant remark may pull the wool over some peoples eyes but not me. Your debt is a massive problem and will have huge far reaching implications for your club in the future. Heard an interesting bit on talksport yesterday, Ipswich have been in the championship longer than any other club. Not sure if it's true.
I think we are all missing the point here. The unmistakeable fact we can take out of this situation is that Ipswich won a trophy a million years ago. That is what we have to remember if we are to go forward.
I thought I'd look into the financial fair play rules, and see what it looks like, this seems to be the best source of information. From what I can make of it (and if someone with more financial nohow can correct me, that'd be great), is that the clubs can, until the end of this season run at any loss without sanction, but the target figure is £12m in the red each season, with a shareholder allowed to put in £8m to cover some of that, with £4m added to extra debt. Spending on infrastructure and the academy doesn't count towards this figure though, along with a couple of other exceptions. For the 2013-14 season the target is £10m loss (£6m covered by shareholders, £4m debt). This will be assessed on the 1st December 2014, and if they fail to meet this target, the first sanctions come in January 2015. If the club has stayed in the championship during the 2013-14 season, they'll be placed under a transfer embargo for the January window and beyond until their accounts are in check. I believe they can sell players, but not sign anyone over 18. If a club are promoted whilst breaking FFP, then there's a special tax for them. Anything over the £10m loss is taxed at a rate rising to 100% on all debts over a total of £20m, and the money received from this is spread equally between the teams thay obeyed FFP. So this is how I think it would work in practice for the 2 clubs we probably have the most passing interest in: ITFC: This seasons loss of ~£16m would break FFP, so by next season that needs reducing to £10m(ish). Do so and they're ok, although with falling attendances and less valuable players to sell, this could prove difficult. Assuming they (or any other club, Bolton could well fall foul of this for example) fail to do so. They have a transfer embargo put in place for Jan 2015, and beyond until they reduce their outgoings. Once they've done so they become entitled to a share of the FFP tax takings, helping them to recover. If they're relegated in the mean time, then new rules apply in Leagues 1 and 2, which cap player salaries at 65% of turnover (I think). QPR: When a team is relegated, they aren't effected by FFP for their first season down, so their 12-13 accounts don't matter. However, if they promote right away, sanctions come in based on the 13-14 season, so in December 2014 they could be forced to pay the FFP tax if they gained promotion without adhering to FFP. I believe their operating debt on promotion was £26.5m. If the wages were the same for the 2013-14 season, £16.5m would be taxable, meaning they'd pay around £13m (if I've done my maths correctly) to the football league to be split between FFP-adhering sides. I think this kind of shows how important re-promoting right away is to QPR, if they fail to win promotion at the first time of asking, then their accounts will come under scrutiny for their first season down, and without serious reductions they'll be under a transfer embargo for their second January down. Their problem is obviously the wage bill, so it'll be interesting to see how they get on at selling players. If they promote the first time around, I'm presuming that Fernandes will just swallow the big tax. Hopefully I'm now not subjected to posts about how we're obsessed...
Far from it DH. I asked earlier today how it worked, so your detective work has helped me get a grasp of it. Thanks for that
Great summary DH, I've not given the rules much consideration to be honest, but it's clear that they could have a real impact on certain clubs
At least you'd see what he looks like then Not like we could extradite him from his tax haven anyway Sounds like a stand up guy.
so somebody that would be interested wouldn't look at the bank account and realise that will happen, they would take that into account when purchasing.
You could be left in unfortunate circumstance where the owner looses interest but is unable to sell it as he has too much at stake and no one will buy it as they cant afford to take the debts on. You would become a club with zero ambition.
It's all very well the Budgies chirping on about this and I thank them wholeheartedly for their concern but the truth is that most football clubs are run on debt of one kind or another. We have a stable owner who has invested large amounts of money into the club over the last 5 years and he has made it clear many times that he will not walk away. Sorry Budgies but there really isn't a story here
£80 million debt with falling revenue streams, merchandise sales and a drop in match attendances. Of course not JWM.
And, similar to us, you're not yet guaranteed to be plying your trade in the same division next season. Reasons to be cheerful.....not
Ipswich are in the crap. There is no way of getting away from it. One day it will switch round again no doubt. Assuming your still in existence.
If our owner had shown no ambition or no interest in the club then he wouldn't have sacked Jewell and replaced him with a quality manager in Mick McCarthy. ME made the big mistake in the summer of not sacking Jewell but better late than never. Our last home game attracted an attendance of over 20k which is the biggest this season so hardly a sign that attendances have dropped off a cliff. Next season will see an increase in Season Ticket sales and attendances when Mick gets the summer to bring in his own players and rebuilds the squad strength. Mick will get a Million bonus when he keeps us up and has been promised a budget to seriously compete in the transfer market. Hardly signs of an owner ready to jump ship and hardly a sign of us imploding. You should be more concerned about only winning 1 game in 14
