No Mate, thats the choice Ive made personally. As explained my stance is against the reasons that Im not able to do what I want when I want within our free society and within the law. It may be that it looks like they have won by not going but that's my choice.
And that is the essence of it - choice. What has concerned me throughout is that there has been a trend to structure posts as if it is a duty to support the cause, not doing so is akin to being a scab; it's a pity DMD missed that last night, it may have given him pause-for-thought in what followed, as he missed more than that - they are then carefully given the rider that of cause everyone has the right . . . bloody hypocritical bullshit to try and keep one foot in the camp of reasoned debate; these posts are easily found. The reason I made my opening post of 'who the **** are you' (on the 1st 'I've decided') was because the post I responded to was not only derogatory but insulting to anyone who fell out of what was becoming a very presccribed school of thinking. If I were out and about and some one spoke to me like that (the thread is closed, but it on page 1 or 2) I would definitely have responded in such a manner, because, just who the **** did he think he was? If that upset him then so-be-it, as he had already upset me with his internet bravado. I have also found the vilification of the police, as a body, really quite distasteful and I find it unfortunate that my club, through this board and others, is associated with it. I have seen it said that many are concerned that it is the police who will cause the trouble - why would they, ffs? I have asked for evidence of these posts that are concerned about this - where are they? Are these a figment of someones imagination to give the whole 'the police are pigs' nonsense arms and legs to create a unnecessary feeling of antagonism towards the law? The powers that be have made a mistake, a big mistake, it does not make the men and women of the force nazis for ****s sake! The whole inference is either politically motivated or simply moronic - at best very, very misguided. There are plenty of police officers both play and support football; as do their friends and families. Some elements of this has gone just too far, for instance OLM's comments about the copper, his family and friends was crass (pointless copying it), nothing less. If we want to be treated with respect I suggest we start to dole some out. I am prepared to respond to reasoned comment that is relevant to what I have actually written, otherwise it is a waste of time. Oh, that reminds me, I can and will substantiate everything I have put if called upon to do so, except where it is opinion of course!
I would have thought that the fact I wished death upon Simon Walton in that post, made it fairly obvious that it was not a serious comment. Mind you... £10 travel to the game was announced at the same time as the fixture change.
**** knows what middle class bubble you live in. I think people are distrustful of the police through experience therefore this comes to the fore in situations like this. Indeed, sometimes comments will be laced with hyperbole; often though, it's just a reflection of genuinely held long term inner feelings. Personally, I’ve experienced police officers behaving appallingly in many different scenarios over the years. “If we want to be treated with respect I suggest we start to dole some out” Jesus. Have you actually experienced being a football fan over the last 30 years? “Oh, that reminds me, I can and will substantiate everything” That bit made me laugh. Thanks.
To some, maybe, to others possibly not. Simply an illustration and not a massive dig, but it did come across as quite sincere.
For reference I live on a working class housing estate in the NE.Your personal experience is your own and I have no doubt it will shape the way you view the police and, perhaps, how they view you; who knows? I had understood this thread to one of the more serious conversations, as the subject has been raised to a level of mutual importance, so it's quite good if some form of balance can be retained that accurately and fairly reflects the issues faced. So being a football fan excludes me from being respectful of others? Maybe in your world. I'm pleased I amused you with the last bit, about substantiation. I will continue to be patient and wait for examples of all of these posts that are supposed to echo this big concern that the WYP will be the ones causing trouble - it may be the case, who knows, but I seriously have not seen anything except from the folk who instigated the thought. On the other thread, one of your criticisms against me was: "You sum up the individualistic âcouldnât give a ****â attitude that is prevalent today." I pointed out that many give a ****, but the manner may differ from yours. But let me ask you, as I feel it only fair to offer you an opportunity to enlighten and persuade me otherwise - why do I have to conform to some group persuasion to be acceptable? I think the fact I take the trouble to debate this indicates an element of interest. I am genuinely interested in your reasoning, so don.t be shy.
I think the debate on this is settled now. There is the march and there is the match. If most who can do choose one and support it. We only need a handful inside the ground. 500 will be enough to generate an atmosphere and we'll make our point for the cameras. If plenty of others (including opposition fans) join the march and make their point collectively and withut a fuss then it's job done and we'll get our point across. I'll be in the ground. That's my decision now. It seems to have been organised pretty effectively by the club and fans now and I think this is the best way forward.
i thought the debate goes a bit deeper than that? Match day should only be the start if we're not to suffer more from these incompetents.
I'm starting to wonder how many football matches you have ever been to Fez and if you have never seen the police 'in action'
Been to lots and I would think there are lots of folk who attend football and have never seen the police 'in action'. Is it some form of qualification? Do I have to dislike the police to be a football supporter?
I think it would be pretty much impossible to attend a lot of football matches and never have seen the police in action. You get filmed from the minute you arrive, until the minute you leave, at many grounds.
Fair enough on that, totally agree. I thought the 'police in action' remark was referring to them provoking violence. Personally I have no issue with the cameras if it helps catch thugs and racists, as something needs to be done. You can go on the lash or go shopping in any city centre and you are just about constantly filmed, it's a part of society now; not great, but history has created the need.
I have been to a fair few games, think i spotted you out at the Rochdale friendly, Anyway, when you say "action" by the police do you mean physical ? To be honest i have never seen this part of the police at a game, have seen the the odd policeman on a house gallop away. And of course the camera men !! Now, "stewards" every ****ing game i go to they have to pull me to a side and search me, which i find a bit annoying! Will add there is an age element to this, so that could factor into not seeing actions of the police
If people haven't seen the Police in action, I guess it's more evidence to support the claim that they're an unnecessary expense
Personally, I draw a clear distinction between a city centre having CCTV and law abiding citizens neither noticing or being concerned about them and having a copper stick a camcorder in my face when I've done nothing wrong. The KC Stadium has 93 camera's in it, there is no part of the seating areas, the concourse, or the offices, that isn't covered by those cameras. Yet the police stand in the East Stand filming everyone at each and every game we play. That's not for practical reasons, everything is being filmed already in HD, it's to make a statement that you're being watched. It's draconian, it's obnoxious, it shouldn't be happening and hopefully it won't continue much longer. At the Forest game, there were 42 officers, 1 inspector and 6 sergeants outside the ground, with another 28 officers, 3 sergeants and 1 inspector inside the ground(thanks to Karlberg for those numbers). There were a couple of fans ejected, there were no arrests and that's more police than were utilised for Man United v Liverpool, with a crowd of 75,000. It's utterly farcical, completely unnecessary and deeply ****ing irritating.
Certainly those of a certain age will view things a little differently, as someone who's been going to games since the 70's, I've seen a very different style of policing. The difference is, that back then, the policing was justified, you don't resent a copper for chasing you up and down Anlaby Road if you know you're doing something wrong, you expect it. Also, the way things were dealt with were very different, you were rarely arrested and there was no such thing as banning orders. If there were a few naughties outside an away game, you were locked in a van for the duration of the game and then as soon as the final whistle went, you were allowed out the van to meet your mates. It was very much a game of cat and mouse, when you got locked in the van you just accepted it, there was even some good banter with the coppers. There was no riot gear, there were no camcorders, it was just 'oi son, you're nicked', then a couple of hours later, 'see you lads, safe journey home'. Oh, how I miss those days.
Again, fair enough. Opinions change as they garner information and you have provided some that is not in the public domain. I thoroughly dislike the hand-held cameras and agree that they are intrusive, verging on aggressive, depending on how they are used; reading your camera stats then I would have to question why they are needed in all routine circumstances. I have never counted the cameras or the police, but it all certainly seems OTT. When it comes to security being provocative I would say I have seem plenty of stewards strutting unnecessarily, but not the law. I do wonder whether or not the policing of the KC (which I believe the club pays for) is something that the club requests or the police dictate - I don't know and I bet an awful lot of supporters share my ignorance.
