If there is anymore evidence that Gallas shouldn't be playing, Defoe is a greedy bastard who, if he learned to pass, would be a much better striker, Parker has served his time, Livermore is not ready for prime time, plus Ade.... Watching them dither on the ball run around like they have barely played the game was dire. Not an encouraging sign at all and just more fuel to the fire that Levy should have got us a solid striker and creative midfielder ages ago. If that line up ever appears on the field again the opposition will be pissing themselves laughing
So, what was everyone else's recovery plan? I went with a large bottle of beer, then settled down for Suits, then came on here...and I've got Dead Space 3 until Monday.
I'm really confused with our tactics and how we set up at the moment. Forget Bale being unavailable tonight, I just mean in general. Holtby is an attacking midfielder, yet he's barely had a chance to play there. he's been crap in the last few games, but that's because he's being asked to play as a left winger when he comes on. - He's a guy that lacks sufficient pace for the job out wide and is completely wasted. His type of play means we end up more narrow and it stifles us. Dembele on the right? why?! he's our only senior play maker. - Take him out of the centre and we have no link whatsoever. Bale central - is doing a great job and is our only match winner at present. The problem? we lose shape as no one else can play on the left and as a result, become almost ineffective down one side of the pitch. Bale playing central has seen massive improvements in his game and he's won us a lot of points, I'm not going to deny that. But it's also make other players struggle, and meant we've had to bring in players to positions that don't suit them, or weaker players to fill positions. The root cause of this issue? not signing a striker. It's has a massive impact on so many positions and it's really beginning to show. I wonder if we can continue this decent form for the final 9 games. - i seriously doubt it. we've got to start thinking about getting the team back to it's overall strength, as well as freshening it up a bit. A team I want to see: Lloris - picks himself Naughton - needs some games at RB as KW is not up to par. Dawson - picks himself Vertonghen - generally very good and would have to be chosen over caulker. Gallas to be phased out now and Caulker given more game time. Benny - We miss him badly when he doesn't play. How anyone can put the guy down, I just don't know. We don't really have another LB option, IMO. Perhaps Verts. - but he needs to be central. Parker - Usually solid, but needs the right man next to him. Holtby - needs to play alongside Parker in the next game. - hasn't had a start and should link defense and attack well. Not currently our best option supporting the "striker" (or lack of one) at the moment, as the "striker" is not up to par and doesn't link well with anyone. Holtby or not. Lennon - picks himself Dembele - push him forward as he holds the ball up well, will keep possession and spread it well. Bale - needs to go back out on the left, to give us a threat from another side of the pitch. Needs to stay wide like Lennon in order to create more space centrally for Dembele, Holtby and Parker to exploit "Striker" - whoever. neither seem to be doing much. Lloris Naughton Dawson Vertonghen BAE Parker Holtby Lennon Dembele Bale "Striker" Tom Carroll now needs more opportunities. - More sub appearances for a tired Holtby or Dembele. - when he comes on, he plays alongside parker and which ever out of Dembele or Holtby stay on, that player moves forward. Livermore not to be used unless Parker is out injured. I also think it's safe to say it's game over for Huddlestone. EDIT: realised I've left Sig out. Not due to bad performances. In general he's been very good recently. But this is how I feel we need to set up. Then perhaps sig can come on (given plenty of minutes) with Bale going central instead of our "strikers".
Can you see the need to highlight 'I said', we all thought the same thing within 2 seconds of reading the teamsheet...the one Deedub put up before!
The tactics might have been flawed but I find it very hard to blame a manager when almost every single one of his players has absolute mares. Even if Dembele is in the wrong position, even if Parker and Livermore don't complement each other - the sheer lack of technical class, creativity, ability to keep possession etc, etc that we saw by the players tonight would undo even the perfect formation. It says something that on here people are arguing over who was the worst player for us and there have been quite a few names mentioned. And then someone will say: "Oy - you forgot player x" cos we all probably forgot, momentarily, the seventh or eighth player who was absolutely awful tonight. This time last week I didn't care that so many of the wins papered over the cracks of average performances. But for a while now it's been obvious that, Bale aside, we have real creativity and attacking problems. Glass half empty analysis would be that we've been found out and we need a bunch more luck and Bale not getting injured to succeed this season. But glass half-full analysis would be that there is no way that so many players can have such a poor game together in one match for the rest of the season. Parker was excellent last week - my MOTM. He hasn't become utter ****e in the space of a week. Walker, maybe, needed that - a damn good ****ing lesson that he is a defender, not just a relatively ineffectual winger. Plus players like Dawson, Benny, Lennon will be getting back in the team.* In some ways perhaps this was as good as it gets, as far as soul-crushingly awful defeats go. We still won - nothing lost and we get a damn good kick up the backside for anyone at the club to remember that to get this team to achieve things we're gonna need to work even harder. * Oh - and Bale, of course!
Loris Walker, Dawson, Verts, Benny Parker or Sandro when fit Lennon, Holtby, Dembele, Sig Bale as our strikers offer nothing I would go with this, Sig is a little better but still not convinced he is a real asset but we have no choices. Livermore, Gallas, both strikers, Hudd , Dempsey, should all be moved on. The problem is with such poor cover if any of the 11 are injured results in a complete downgrade.
Whatever the reason, we were badly beaten by a pretty average Inter side. Let's face it, we were a whisker away from going out. In my view, tactics were the main culprit. However, I take lenny's point that far too many of our players didn't show up on the night. In defence we were totally disorganised, with Gallas seemingly having read a different game plan. Walker seems to have suffered a lobotomy, or something - assuming there was anything there to lobotomise. In midfield, as hard as he may try, it strikes me that Livermore is just not up to the required standard. In attack we were clueless. As for Ade, it's high time the lazy **** started putting in a full shift - not 25% of one. It seems that this kind of performance is always likely when players have no confidence in what they're being asked to do.
I agree, there's nothing you can do if the players don't show up. - but getting it right from the start helps massively. If you go out with a formation or positioning that's not to your strengths, it only adds to the problem when things go wrong. - which is what you guys have indicated that happened last night. But it wasn't just last night. It was similar against Liverpool and we've experienced it on several other occasions this season. One minute, I think that AVB has got it spot on by making a couple of "tweaks" and has produced a great team performance with who he's chosen. But there are a fair few occasions where his choices result in a performance that's at the other end of the spectrum. How can it go from so right to so wrong? I fail to see anything positive about putting dembele on the right? Granted, this is a more extreme example of bizarre tactics. However, in the case of other players such as holtby and livermore, how many games is it going to take before he realises that the former is wasted on the left and the latter is instrumental in our central midfield problems? Sidney, I agree with you, especially that last sentence. We've been top 4 challengers for a few seasons now. No, we don't have the money to compete with the 3 big names (United, City and Chelsea), but our lack of quality strikers and talent beyond the first 11 is too weak. It's 1 thing having a bench with the likes of Dzeko, Nani, Hernandez etc, but at the same time we have players towards the other end of the scale. A team who want CL football and therefore want to be a challenge in the CL need to have some players who can come on to make a difference. We have very few options. The difference in quality needs to be assessed and then improved massively over the summer, so our squad options become more competitive with our top 4 rivals. Those players you mention need to make way for some genuine top 4 talent, and some up and coming players who can learn under AVB. - Levy has got to let AVB get the players he really wants.
Avb's tactics have never fully convinced me, so I don't have a problem with laying blame at him when he picks the wrong team, as while no manager can account for all players under performing, if the manager picks the wrong set-up for the players picked, then I always lay blame at the manager, be that Redknapp or AVB. One of my main issues, is that the problems within the team are long standing and been over shadowed by good results and Bale scoring wonder goals, now we have had two bad results, the results don't hide issues, so makes it easier to debate, rather then "we're winning, so nothing is wrong attitude". Although I won't hold much hope for Avb to see LIvermore isn't up to the job, two Dm's don't work, or Ade/Defoe can't play together, as again these are long standing issues, he has had many a game to see it doesn't work, yet reverts to options that don't work, that should tell you he doesn't see a problem.
Not impressed with Naughton as a full back right or left,our best right back cover for Walker ,is on loan at Sunderland imo,hope he is given a chance here next season
it's even deeper than that though, Boss. We have to remember that some of these tactics are bizarre because AVB can only work with what he's got. The striker situation has had a huge knock on affect as bale has had to go up front. We've gone from wondering "who's going to score our goals" in january, to now, where we have seen our left winger moved central and our side has lost shape, become predictable and contains 1 match winner. AVB definitely makes some odd decisions, but it's Levy who's left us in this pickle. Every transfer window we always seem disappointed over missing out on big names, but then we remember that we can't pay that sort of money, as disappointing as it might be, and we get over it. However, not getting the striker was too far. Every spurs fan knew it and now we're seeing the problems. And to top it off, holtby, our only senior signing in January is being wasted
Our best cover for RB is arguably warming the bench at Millwall. Lot of good for his development for half a season!! Too many things were wrong last night and whilst it would be easy to write it off as a one-off I think that we have been close to that sort of performance for a while now. A 'new striker' is essential although may be papering over some more fundamental problems. And it is funny how the striker who gets slated the most for last night is the one who lasted the 120 minutes, worked pretty hard throughout and got the goal that pushed us through - and not the greedy waste of space who got taken off for being bloody awful...... As you can tell, a nights sleep has not improved my mood......
I don't think a new striker is papering the problems relayer, defoe hasn't scored since last year and was on a terrible run before that last goal. What ever anyone says about Ade, i'm not going into the technical aspects such as how much running he does or what ever. The reality is that he's not scoring enough goals either. We can't rely on either of them to produce the goods when we need it. We're competing for the top 4 and it's just not good enough that our left winger has had to play as a striker and save our bacon. 1. Suarez ----Liverpool ---21 2. Van Persie-Man Utd----19 3. Bale-------Tottenham--16 4. Ba---------Chelsea-----15 5. Michu------Swansea----15 6. Dzeko------Man City----12 7. Lambert----Southampton-12 8. Lukaku-----West Brom----12 9. Benteke----Aston Villa----11 10. Cazorla----Arsenal-------11 As the club sitting in 3rd/4th We should have an actual striker up near the top of that table.
My thoughts on AVB are on the thread designated to him. Its all been said here. One man team? Bale? lets not forget Sandro, last nights type of game are made for him, and nobody misses him more than Dembele. 442 away with FB's bombing on...whilst 3-0 up?? Reliance on 2 strikers in a 442 that till Ade actually did, and that was a rebound, haven't scored since Xmas (we're halfway though March! ) and so horribly out of form, with neither able to trap a mouse let alone a football atm. I'll stop before it becomes a full on rant, there's been enough of them!
I'm torn. The tactics weren't perfect, but they weren't 4-1 drubbing bad. The slightly incorrect tactics were excacerbated (that is the most intelligent word you'll see me use!) by the players being piss-poor. Roo - Sorry, i can't agree with putting Bale out left again. His best position now is central/free, we need to play him there or we'll get nothing. Bale could stay out wide whipping in cross after cross but who is gonna put them away? Ade? Hahaha. Defoe? Only if he can get one along the ground that misses all defenders (tough). However, i do agree with your point that it all stems back to not getting NEW STRIKER. This is something we've all been saying for bugger knows how long now. Lets not panic yet though, we didn't get to 3rd in the league after 30ish games by being ****. Fulham at home, round pegs, round holes, Lennon, Bale playing. Lets smash 'em. Gallas needs to go now, Ade needs to be dropped til he finds some form (sub appearances), Defoe up on his own links the midfield 5 together better so even off form he is a better option than Ade. This is what we need to be playing against Fulham: Lloris Naughton Dawson Verts Benny Parker Dembele Lennon Bale Sigurdsson Defoe If and when Holtby comes on it should be in place of Bale or Dembele. Firstly, because he is a central midfields/number10 and should play his postion especially while still acclimatising. Secondly, they are our most important players and if given the chance we should sub them off to save them if we are in a good position in the game. Also, we are STILL IN the EL, just, but still in. By definition we are still in the hunt for a trophy and fighting on 2 fronts. Can Liverpool or Arsenal say that? Let alone most the other clubs in the league.
Worryingly true. Why persist with Livermore and Parker in a 4-4-2. Any Spurs fan knows this is an old recipe for disaster. I was worried from the moment I saw the team sheet. I'd rather have Parker and Dembele central, with Siggy and Townsend on the flanks. Holtby behind either Ade or Defoe. (Yes I know Townsend is at QPR.) Why do we not have natural cover for Lennon?!? I'd even put both Kyles on the right before moving Dembele from the centre to replace him with 'Livermore'?!?
Spurm, good points and to a certain degree, I agree with you. You're right, bale is our only option for scoring goals, so I guess he's got to play central. But perhaps he should be the striker with Sig playing on the left. Yes, we lose our pace down that side, but he's got a good cross on him and could feed bale? Defoe and Ade aren't doing enough and we now know bale can score with his head, so maybe he'll be more affective from the opportunities we produce? Defoe has become too greedy in his personal quest for a goal. it's harming the team at the moment as he's not making the correct decisions.
Alright Roo, I understand your frustrations with Levy as I remember your reaction on your January transfer window thread!!..I also share your frustrations, however from the outset (going back to the summer) Avb has always given the impression a striker wasn't a priority, which is why Holtby was signed in the window and a striker wasn't viewed as a priority. Looking at our squad, we have Holtby & Carroll, two players which can offer creativity but Avb doesn't use them so thats his choice, rather then the squad dictating what line up must be used. My own view is that the squad doesn't suit Avbs vision, which is why we see bizarre tactics and decisions, but I can't blame Levy for not giving Avb the ideal squad, as that will take time but also how many times have we seen a lack of support for the striker? too many times for my liking and that is often down to the set-up, rather then the squad dictating.
