Show me one video where a player has attempted to control the ball two footed when he's not aware of any other players around him. It's ridiculous to say. He wouldn't two foot if he perceived there was no one else around. Like Nani wouldn't have tried to control the ball like that had he been aware that the player was there. By your logic this: [video=youtube;rEuHHM9_US0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEuHHM9_US0[/video] should have been a red also? High foot, attempting to win the ball... Connects with ball but could be perceived as a 'dangerous challenge' by your logic.
Having watched all the video's my opinion hasn't changed 9 times out of 10 common sense prevails and the player gets a yellow. By the letter of the law yes you can give a red, but its silly. I don't see any lashing out at all. The "second kick" is the force of the first one carrying through after pushing his arm out the way, It all takes place in a second and since Nani didn't see him he's never trying to retract his leg until after that.
The Coloccini vs Ba incident should have been red in my opinion. It was accidental, but yes, it's worthy of a red because kicking someone in the face shouldn't be met with no punishment. This is a game where tugging a shirt or pushing someone gets a yellow or red card for crying out loud. I shall look, I offered it as a scenario of similar qualities which would have been met with a different reaction by yourself and clarified exactly what kind of rules we should be bending to help you guys out... Here's some ones which I can talk about in the meantime which allow me to explain my view even more explicitly. [video=youtube;GwOq9VRwzho]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwOq9VRwzho[/video] Henry jumps in, looking at the ball quite clearly, with only a vague sense that the defender is approaching the ball. Two-footed, as the comments below prove, although he got the ball, it's worthy of a red. [video=youtube;-w4KzQMx4Wc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w4KzQMx4Wc[/video] The player who tackles Ronaldinho in this video watches the ball 99% of the way as it comes in, and attempts to tackle the ball with two feet. I doubt he is trying to hurt the player, but made a rash decision to play the ball and was subsequently sent-off and a penalty was given. Had he got the ball but clattered the man, it's still a red card challenge.
You originally said when a player makes a two foot attempt at the ball unaware of any other players... in both of those videos the player making the tackle is aware of the ball, Henry is chasing down the player in front of him! Of course he is aware where the player is. I think that both should be reds. Henry got lucky and as that was a few years ago now, if he made that challenge today it would probably be a red instead of a yellow, even though he won the ball. I have no idea why he tried to tackle ronaldhino like that was never going to win the ball. But he knew where the player was as the player had the ball! The key point here is about being aware of the player though. Both of the videos you provided the player tackling knew where the player was. Nani did not. Maybe he should have looked but the game moves too fast and had he taken his eye off the ball, even for an instant, he wouldn't have been able to control it which was all he was trying to do, not win the ball with a challenge.
And now we get to the crux of the issue, you being unreasonable and unwilling to listen to anybody else. I clearly said this; "I shall look, I offered it as a scenario of similar qualities which would have been met with a different reaction by yourself and clarified exactly what kind of rules we should be bending to help you guys out... Here's some ones which I can talk about in the meantime which allow me to explain my view even more explicitly." How do you not understand that I never said they were examples of what I said? I just said they shed a bit more light on my thoughts. There's clearly no point wasting my time with you.
You proposed the two foot example. You then present two cases of two footed challenges? Common sense dictates that they were examples of your two footed lunge to win a ball without being aware of opposing players. You call me unreasonable and willing just because I don't agree 100% with you? It's my opinion. I'm respecting yours. IF Nani had looked up 2 seconds before collision then it's a definite red. However, he didn't and didn't even know he was there, I don't know how you can send a player off for that. It's like a player swinging his foot back to kick the ball and catching a player behind him on the floor in the face. Dangerous play by swinging his foot in the area of the player's face. A red? Of course not. The player kicking had no idea he was there. An accident.
What are you talking about? You are essentially saying "duh look, pretty pictures" And my point is proven, you clearly aren't reading what I'm writing... I don't know how that's respecting my opinion? I'm the only one showing respect here by bothering to entertain your posts beyond looking at the pictures... Are you making a reference to the Van Persie incident there, where he "could have died"? Your statement is entirely different to the matter at hand, because the severity is not the same and the rules are not the same. If I lunged about the office without looking, does that make it an accident when I hit a female coworker with my bits, or is she going to sue my arse off(kinky)? It was at least wreckless, whether you are blind to the aggressive intent following the contact or not. Wreckless in today's game is a red card, is it not? I think Colo should be sent off for kicking Ba, Lopez should be sent off for striking Vidic, and Nani should be sent off for dangerously fouling Arbeloa. Pretty consistent.
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/7. law 12_miscounduct_557.pdf Kindly supplied by another fan on the BBC match thread. Nani's foul, negating any observations of aggressive intent, is clearly defined under the "serious foul play" section, which as Fifa code states, is red card worthy. It says nothing of "being unaware of other players on the park" because, as Roy Keane said, it's silly to think there's nobody else out there. Really, Nani should have looked before playing such a rash challenge, and he should have pulled out in a cleaner and less aggressive fashion, and that's what Man Utd fans should bemoan in hindsight.
See that's where everyone is going wrong, there was no challenge there it was a leap to control the ball no more no less, anyone trying to reach out their leg to control a ball now should be yellow carded if it makes contact with someone red card.
Was actually enjoying the debate until you turned into a condescending dickhead. I don't know why you have this perceived sense that you are better and more intelligent than me. You use complex words when there really is no need and it just makes you look like a twat tbh. No I was not referring to the Van Persie incident, I was describing a hypothetical situation but clearly you aren't imaginative to use it so I'll provide another. Ok, remember Terry getting knocked: [video=youtube;8GEB-TYLMmQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GEB-TYLMmQ[/video] Is that a red? No. It was reckless kicking that high, so you're saying he should be sent off? Accidents happen in football, its a fact. A simple accident shouldn't be punished with dismissal. I agree that the level of severity of Lopez on Vidic matches that of Nani but that just heightens the sense of injustice that one was a red and the other went unpenalised. Although I believe both were fouls and yellows.
And that's what I explained earlier. He wasn't trying to challenge for the ball. He was trying to control it.
This! Keepers always get away with being slightly late and taking out opponents in the air (like Lopez on Vidic) because they were doing their job and going for the ball, overhead kick attempts that hit people in the face are only seen as yellow cards (and often not even that) because it's considered nothing more than an accident while trying a difficult skill, so why should that type of contact while clearly attempting to control a ball (he clearly had his eye fixed on the ball the whole time) be any different? FIFA's own rules state that a careless challenge is only a foul and a reckless challenge is only a booking, excessive force is what's described as being a red card offense, which one of those would you describe Nani's challenge as?
I'll give Nani a 9/10 for style, obviously been taking some lessons! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFsW6vvBwHk did you notice the second kick? lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bpitiO90c4 Maybe its how fergie tells them to do it!
In the EPL red card 70% of the time in Europe 99% of the time. To compare that to a snap shot overhead kick is ridiculous, the ball traveled across field if Nani has no idea of what was around him in that situation he should not be playing pro football. I think the time in the air probably swayed the ref in this situation. Stupid play on his part he knew the situation and foreign ref and therefore should have know the risk. As for the keeper argument that happens all the time and the keepers are never punished for it, rightly or wrongly, so is hardly shows inconsistency from the referee. That said I thought you showed a hell of a lot of heart after going down to 10 men and had the chances to pull it back, overall could have gone either way but for me a stupid decision from Nani, not the ref, cost you. Think you should still be proud of the performance over 2 legs and if this is a under performing UTD side, as has been suggested this season, then God help the rest when you click!!!!
While I don't want to get drawn into the argument, I must point out that Rule 12 of FIFA's laws does not mention awareness or knowledge or intent at all. Knowing he was there or not doesn't change the outcome which was a high kick to the abdomen. Which is reckless play. It doesn't matter if he didn't mean to hurt or kick Arbeloa, the fact of the matter is that he did kick him. Intent can only be used post sending-off to judge whether it constitutes a further match ban (which it obviously doesn't). Awareness is not a component of the rule on the pitch. By the book it is a clear red. I think the referee could have and should have given a yellow given the circumstances but it was reckless ( why jump towards a ball high footed if you perceive no one to be around you? Just wait for it to drop and turn around.) Its unlucky and United fans have the right to feel unlucky. But not aggrieved at ref bias. I saw plenty not go Madrid's way as well. In any case Nani probably got the hairdryer treatment after the match. It was unnecessary. It cost you the game. Shame too, you were better than them in the first half.
Lad, I was thinking the exact thing. If the stupid little twat of a ref wants to intrepret the rules literally then the keeper had to walk as punching a player on the head so far more dangerous than a player attempting to control the ball.
cahir referee leader legend. Only joking. Ridiculous decision: bad luck. Bu should Rafael have been redded too?
The thing is - There needs to be a bit of common sense in refereeing, everything shouldn't be by-the-book. Nani red card was harsh.
