As a club and institution we are, even on the pitch I still think we're better than you man for man in most departments barring central defence, but the problem is we have bad coaching, and don't play like a team. I mean do you deny that Arsenal a CLUB, INSTITUTION, is not far more superior to Spurs considering our stadium and resources, with yours? Surely Spurs fans aren't THAT delusional.
to be fair you were winning , with 80 mins to play with 10 men . we were NOT and had 85 mins. a slight difference but still a difference. You could have parked the bus , and got the points . We didnt have that option . You shipped 5 goals and we kept it down to 2 against a very expensive set of strikers. but its all semantics.
I refer you to what I just said. The only reason we're here is because of bad managements, bad use of resources. We're a sleeping giant waiting to be unlocked and unleased.
Look we deserved to lose...we deserved to go down to 10 men... but it is really desperate to claim some kind of moral superiority that you only lost by 2 goals when down to 10 men for 85 mins which was respectable whereas we had our asses handed to us when we lost by 3 goals after being down to 10 men for 80 mins. By the way didn't city have a man sent off that day too?
sorry but your colleague started with the moral superiority , he brought up the " you only beat us coz we had a man sent off **** " We ALL have players sent off , it aint a badge of honour. You didnt have a man sent off for the first 5-2 did you ? , cant remember ? We were beating Barcelona in the CL till we had a man sent off , **** happens dont it .
Lol they should try having a their best player sent off , in the most important game for years, for no more than kicking the ball one second after the whistle, in a ground where you cant hear above the din. Crying about Ades red is a joke .
i aint excusing us losing mate ... in either of the 5-2 matches...guess i wandered into an argument so i'm off... laters
Although A87 likes to rant. His fundamental point is right, Arsenal have finished above Spurs for 16 years now and in that time we have won titles, doubles and trophies and we have comfortably outperformed spurs, so we don't really compare ourselves against Spurs, although spurs in that time have been using us as the measure of success against what they would like to have achieved We have been more on a par recently, but as pointed out, that has been due to our own self inflicted decline, we have dropped down to meet Spurs, rather than them climbing up to reach our usual standards. Today was a classic example of us handing the game to Spurs by our own making. At the moment they are ahead of us, but it's only this season. They've been ahead and bottled it plenty of times before. So we'll see where we both finish. They won today, so they get their moment to brag, we would do the same if we'd beaten them. But as for any fabled 'Powershift' to take place, Spurs will have to outperform Arsenal and finish above us not just in this season, but for the next 16 years and win at least as many trophies along the way to even be considered on a par
Unless Arsenal get rid of Wenger, Spurs will be ahead for a good while to come. Its kinda sad seeing a team that I truly believed to be invincible a few years back, and a Manager I regarded as the best besides Fergie, struggling to get even 4th. Wenger, as sad as it is, is just past his best now and he seems to be very stubborn in not wanting to change his ways despite football being very different now than when he was winning everything. The level of competition is much greater now for CL and EL places with the emergence of Spurs, City, and even Everton, Liverpool look to be improving slowly but surely too, and if Swansea keep hold of Laudrup they'll be up around Europa places too again. The days of the "Sky 4" taking all the CL places year in and year out seems in the distant past now. I suppose though that makes the league better for supporters on the whole though, and more interesting due to the increased competition up around the top. I imagine having the same 4 teams finish in the same 4 places every season for almost a decade must of pissed quite a lot of people off. The Senior management and ownership seem to be as much of the problem as Wenger though, especially if you read and believe what Amy Lawrence has to say about it all.
Unfortunately mate it just doesn't work like that. Look at Liverpool. Finished above Spurs and Everton nearly every single season from the day dot until 2009/10 season. Since 2000 LFC have a CL win, a UEFA Cup, 2 FA Cups, 3 League Cups top 4 every year. Spurs and Everton finish above last couple of seasons and everyone says there's a powershift and those 2 clubs have surpassed Liverpool, despite everything that had gone before. Besides Reds, does anyone else reference what Liverpool have won recently compared to Everton and Spurs? Does any of that get a mention as Spurs and Everton are constantly said to be better thaan LFC? No. The blance of power shifted from Liverpool to Spurs as a "top 4" club after just 2 seasons of them finishing above them, and the same in Merseyside with Everton. I learned that nobody cares much for what you've achieved in the past. If it hasn't happened in the last couple of seasons it appears to be irrelevant. I defo don't think that is right at all, but thats how it seems to be nowadays. History is history, literally. I understand your point that it should take more than just one or two seasons of finishing higher than a club for another club to be seen as 'surpassing' that club, but people don't have very long memories in football. If Spurs finish higher next season too then they'll defo been seen as the best London team. Next season will be very interesting for many different reasons, there could be so many good, competative teams the way things are shaping up.
The thing though is that they are catching up (really Arsenal stumbling in the past couple of seasons), but despite all that they are still not hammered on to beat us. They have a 7 point lead, but they also have Chelsea, Liverpool, and City to contend with. They are on a very good run of form at the moment, but a loss could derail all that. It's going to be a very interesting end to the season, as even Chelsea are in the mix of things.
I'm with PISKIE and A87. Until Spurs: i) Have won something ii) Gone Several games unbeaten against Arsenal iii) Finished significantly higher than them in the league table I.e totally outperformed them Then there is no power shift. Last season Chelsea finished 6th, 3 places lower than Arsenal and 2 lower than Spurs. Prior to then Chelsea had topped the London clubs for 7 seasons running and also won by far the most in that time frame. Did anyone seriously think there was a major shift in power when Chelsea won the CL and FA Cup. Last season a power shift amongst the Manchester clubs could be argued because City pipped United to the title smashing them 6-1 and totally outplaying them in the 1-0, completing a league double over United. Spurs currently are a better team than Arsenal, but not by much, until Spurs win a trophy I.e League, Champions League or even Europa I'm not ready to say definitively there has been a power shift. Power loss? Maybe As the above poster has stated Spurs still have a considerably tougher run in (on paper) than Arsenal and even Chelsea (when you consider the clash between the two is at Stamford Bridge). If Chelsea get their act together this month then 4th will probably still end up being contested by Spurs and Arsenal. Vital that Liverpool beat them this weekend as its out of Arsenal's hands now and this is one of the few fixtures where Spurs are likely if not certain to drop points. Fully rested Liverpool v Spurs side that will have just played Inter with possibly Dembele out.
