One thing that both clubs can be proud of (yes both), is the consistently exciting matches between the two. The NLD is BY FAR the most entertaining derby for a neutral and if Sky Sports et al had any integrity instead of just trying to create interest for marketing they'd promote it as the best derby. Instead they spend more time hyping the Liverpool / ManU clash which isn't a derby anyway!!! The ManU/ManC/Chelski clashes are completely drab compared to our derby, and have been so for years.
afcftw - I actually did reply to you on your board, but kept things to a minimum. I did this, because I am an opposing fan on an Arsenal board, and much in the way i'd expect opposing fans to respect our board, I did the same on yours. I felt that the conversation had perhaps gone down a bit of a "wum" route (as I highlighted on here a few posts ago.) I'd made my points clear in previous posts on your match thread, and had some good replies out of Cini and yourself. However, Like I say, I felt it was time to call it a day, as opinions differ and I didn't agree with them and personally felt that it could have gone sour. - Roo Vs an entire arsenal board could have been a recipe for disaster and pathetic arguments could have occurred, which I wanted to stay well clear of. Your comments I posted on here were to ask my fellow spurs fans their opinions, rather than seeing what the Arsenal fans had to write. As you've mentioned in your last post, they were tongue in cheek comments from you, and I thought they might be, but I wasn't sure. - Unfortunately, these can be seen as "wum", when it's over text, and not in a real conversation. Sometimes it can be hard to decipher exactly what that person means. I didn't come back here to be "a 2 faced ****" (to use PISKIE's terminology). If that was the case, I could have just slagged you off to someone on a private message. Our forum is just a few clicks away and can be seen by any fan, so I don't think it's fair for anyone to say that it's two faced when I have put something in the public domain, and it could have easily been seen by you or any other fan. But I'll be honest. - The Diaby/Sandro/Dembele comments were utterly ridiculous, but now I know it was tongue in cheek. - very hrd to tell though, with what seemed like many additional serious comments from you. My apologies in advance if you've taken offense to the "CV" comments, that was simply my way of having a chuckle, as I have never seen an arsenal fan say anything so positive about the Arshavin. - which I mentioned on your board with an element of sarcasm. .Every arsenal fan I have ever spoken has had nothing but negative comments to say about the guy. - throw chamakh into that too! So the joke about Gomes & co was aimed as a bit of light hearted banter. No hard feelings I hope
I think Piskie has made an issue over nothing Roo. Jesus, so much worse things get said it was hardly bad at all what you did. It was extremely hypocritical. I suppose it has certainly spiced tomorrows match up even further as the niceties seem to have disappeared from the match threads now! God I hope we win tomorrow or I think I will be avoiding this forum for a while. I don't think I could handle seeing comments from Piskie and COYG rubbing our noses in it!
You rely on stats far too much. Anyone will tell you Lloris is much better than Szczesny because he is, not because they've analysed a few stats and he comes out better. Since he's settled into the Premier League he's not made a mistake, Szczesny always has a mistake in him much like Gomes and there will be a point where you realise he's costing you more points than he saves. Like with the rest, you're cherry picking stats that suit your opinion. That's why you end up claiming a combined Arsenal/Spurs team would include at least 6 Arsenal players with 2 from Spurs with the rest very even. The rest of our squad must be a lot better than yours or we must be very lucky to not be miles behind you in the league.
@Yid Vicious - You say i rely too much on stats and then quote me giving statistical and observational analysis, thus proving i don't rely totally on stats but also the attributes you can see players posses when you watch them. In the case of Cazorla he has good stats and good performances. As for the keepers - Szc has made the odd mistake, but nothing that has particularly cost us and he is very consistent. Statistically they are both very similar as i pointed out, but i also said there key attributes are different. Szc is very quick off his line, very confident, large framed with good footwork. He is quick to release the ball and keep the game moving and i'm always confident of him in a penalty situation. That said his kicking can be terrible (although has improved alot) and like our old german keeper he gets the occasional rush of blood to the head. Despite Lehman making a handful of mistakes that cost us goals he was a brilliant keeper. Lloris has great reflexes and makes saves you wouldn't think he will. I think Lloris is a fantastic keeper and i wanted him at Arsenal to replace Almunia. At no point have i said Szc would make it into an arsenal/spurs first 11 - i simply stated that it was not as clear cut as spurs fans seem to think. Cazorla, Wilshere, Sagna, Walcott are the 4 players i confidently said would make a mixed first 11. Bale and Sandro OR Dembele depending on the opposition are the 2 spurs players i'm confident would make a mixed 11. The other 5 spots are all much closer to call and could go either way depending on preference for certain types/styles of player and the opposition. For example i've stated a preference for Podolski up front as i think he would interchange with bale and walcott better than any of the other strikers at either team, but against a physical side or a more static game i might go for Giroud or Adebayor for example. I really don't see why that is such a biased view. In-fact i'd guess thats a far more even analysis than most fans of one team or another would give. 4 Arsenal, 2 Spurs, 5 Undecided. Overall the quality of our squads is the closest it has been in the last 20+ years and it shows in the small difference in points in the league. I'd expect us to be fairly close at the moment and not you guys miles behind. If you read through my comments properly you'll realise my view isn't that we are vastly superior to you guys at the moment. I do still think we will finish above you (although a loss on sunday will make that much more difficult) but i think it will be very close like it was last season and may well go down to the last day of the season.
The best mistake you could find was the keeper making a save and a player scoring a rebound? Hardly terrible keeping.
It's not the best mistake, it's the most recent. He had one thing to do in that game and he failed to do it well. Your fellow Goons have very mixed feelings on him: http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/191592-Is-Szczesney-good-enough
You push the ball away from the danger zone, that's basic level goalkeeping. Sczesney also cost you against us and has made several mistakes this season. Average GK by PL standards.
Arsenal are a team you really shouldn't judge by stats. Cazorla and Walcott and the rest can run all the rings they like around lesser opposition but when they are tested, they fall short. Like these tennis players with all the shots who haven't a prayer getting past Djokovic or Federer.
Or to quote the analogy you used elsewhere - Graham Hick - Flat track bully...... Actually I don't write them off quite that easily and certainly tomorrow is a one-off that could go either way. That is why my stomach has started churning 20+hours in advance.....
Now THAT is a good GK error lol - the less said about that one the better It's worth noting that Szc is 4 years younger and at the time of the birmingham final was only 20 years old, having only just become our number 1 keeper, making his CL debut only 10 days earlier in a 2-1 win over Barca in which he made several key saves. Young GK's tend to make the odd error - look at De Gea for another example. It doesn't make them poor GK's. The Blackburn goal - he saves the shot, it looks like its swerving in the air and it's not always possible to push it out of danger. Vermaelen should have stopped it on the line tbh. I could find you several ridiculous Jens Lehman mistakes that cost us goals and games - yet he was a fantastic keeper, better than either of the two we are talking about. And i'll point out once more that i have never said which one i would choose - i've only said it's not as clear cut as some are making out. @Districtline - he has had some patchy moments but so has Joe Hart, yet he is still considered one of the best keepers in the league. @littleDinoLuke - listing Walcott as a player who can't do it in the big games is ridiculous considering his goals against Tottenham, Chelsea, Barca etc etc etc... in recent years. Walcott bashing stopped being fasionable a while back - might be worth actually watching him and forming an opinion of your own Then you name Cazorla who's first goal for our club was against Liverpool, he was then given the MotM award against Tottenham (having scored 1, assisted 1 and dictated the game) and has scored several winning goals already. He also became only the third spanish player to ever score a hatrick in the premiership with his 3 goals and MotM performance at Reading. Hardly two players who can only strut there stuff against lesser teams. In-fact you have hilariously picked the two players who took spurs apart the last time we played.
afctw, isolating individual games doesn't prove your point and mine doesn't rely on showing that Cazorla or Walcott only perform well against lesser teams. What is very evident about Arsenal these days is the inability to a) be competitive against the top teams and b) consistently get results. What characterised Wenger's teams pre-2005 was that winning mentality trophy winning sides have- especially in the PL where resilience is essential. What I'm saying is that stats showing that Cazorla or Walcott compare with the best in the PL doesn't mask the obvious shortcomings. So don't judge Arsenal by stats.
You do rely on stats too much, I never said you only came out with stats. Now that's cleared up, do you really not see a flaw in what you're saying? The fact that you've already backtracked on Gibbs/Monreal and Podolski says you probably do. Based on this post though, you're massively overthinking the question. What I am still perplexed by is how you don't see much difference in Lloris and Szczesny but you do for Sagna and Walker, etc. And Szczesny makes a lot of mistakes, he nearly cost you a point against Villa, cost you two when he gave away a penalty against Chelsea and palming the ball straight back into the danger area against Blackburn. If Lloris isn't a much better 'keeper then I might as well give up and start following another sport because I clearly don't have a clue about football.
You said, and i quote: "Cazorla and Walcott and the rest can run all the rings they like around lesser opposition but when they are tested, they fall short." So playing Spurs isn't a test for Arsenal in your opinion? Because the two players named took you apart last time we played and Walcott took you apart the time before that as well. Your choosing players who play well against Spurs and saying they only play well against lesser teams - think about it. And clearly if the argument is "they don't play well against good teams" then listing games against good teams in which they have performed well surely does prove my point? And your last sentence makes no sense at all - your saying that Walcott and Cazorla having good stats doesnt mask "the" obvious shortcommings. Is that their short commings? The teams short commings? You then say don't judge Arsenal (as a whole) on stats, so i assume your saying that we have to ignore Walcott and Cazorla being good players with good stats because overall Arsenal aren't performing as well as they have in the past? Sorry but i can't follow your logic at all. Your going to have to try and explain again, as i have no idea what your point is!
@Yid Vicious - I haven't back tracked on anything. I said i'd choose Podolski down the middle due to the good movement i think he would have with Bale and Walcott, but that there are other strikers in both teams that i'd use depending on the opposition, that was my stance from my first post onwards. With Gibbs/Monreal, i stated a preference for them over Ekotto due to being happy with how they are performing at the moment for our club, thus not wanting to change that, BUT that i understood why others may want Ekotto in there, particularly considering how new Monreal is to the league. In my very first post i said i'd be happy with ANNY of those 3 in that position and that no single player stood out above the others. Thus i have done no back-tracking and still hold the same opinions. I think you obviously mis-read my initial post and are arguing against points i never made. As for Lloris - like i've said a million times now - i think he is a fantastic GK, i would have him at Arsenal and wanted us to sign him previously - i haven't stated a preference for either keeper and simply wanted to point out that it wasn't as clear cut a decision as others thought. And Sagna has been consistently one of, if not the, best RB in the league for years now - far more experience than Walker and very highly rated by fans of lots of different clubs. Give it another year or so and that might not be the case, but as it stands Sagna is the obvious choice for me.
OK, afctw, consider this example. One of Cazorla's goals was against Utd at OT. He scored against the team 15 points clear at the top of the PL. Proof of his quality and/or the team's ability to perform v top sides? No- not at all; it came in injury time in a game where he did little else and you were totally outplayed, giving one of the most insipid, uninspired performances I've ever seen from an Arsenal side. Do you want to rely on his goal as part of your stats because it proves nothing?
