Agent Rafa

[One of the lads]

Fair enough.

However I would disagree that people don't say nice things about him. The only people who seem to bad mouth him were players on the fringe or were on their way out (Riera and Yossi). These same players who left the club have hardly played since they left or have failed to recapture their best form (Alonso aside).

Players like Mascherano, Torres, Kuyt, Agger, Reina have all complimented Benitez and you could argue that these are all top class and are still performing at a high level.

I don't believe that being a great man manager is simply someone who has a laugh and a joke with you. Rafa certainly isn't that type but if you had the right desire and attitude to improve, then he would give you all the time in the world. Gerrard may have questioned Rafa's techniques but Gerrard's best playing days were under Rafa (goals and assists wise).

With regards to opinions outside our fanbase, Rafa is highly regarded around Europe. It's only in England where he doesn't get the respect he deserves - our country would rather kiss the arse of someone like Moyes and Pulis, 2 men who haven't achieved anything tangible.

Is he? I doubt he's got the best reputation in Italy!

 

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

Fair enough.

However I would disagree that people don't say nice things about him. The only people who seem to bad mouth him were players on the fringe or were on their way out (Riera and Yossi). These same players who left the club have hardly played since they left or have failed to recapture their best form (Alonso aside).

Players like Mascherano, Torres, Kuyt, Agger, Reina have all complimented Benitez and you could argue that these are all top class and are still performing at a high level.

I don't believe that being a great man manager is simply someone who has a laugh and a joke with you. Rafa certainly isn't that type but if you had the right desire and attitude to improve, then he would give you all the time in the world. Gerrard may have questioned Rafa's techniques but Gerrard's best playing days were under Rafa (goals and assists wise).

With regards to opinions outside our fanbase, Rafa is highly regarded around Europe. It's only in England where he doesn't get the respect he deserves - our country would rather kiss the arse of someone like Moyes and Pulis, 2 men who haven't achieved anything tangible.

To be fair to Moyes (and a lesser extent Pulis), they've not been given the chance to manage a club genuinely capable of challenging for top honours. Moyes has been unlucky in that Arsenal and United have long term managers and Liverpool are Everton's main rival. That's the 3 biggest job's in England unavailable to him. Chelsea have always appointed managers who have won things and City and Spurs have only recently come to the fore. Moyes I think is due a big job in the next 6-18 months...surely.

Rafa certainly in the right environment can be a very good manager, he did well with Valencia and Liverpool. However Liverpool's 2 cup wins came from moments of brilliance from Gerrard and 2 penalty shoot outs. So whilst he did well to get them that far, he was also quite fortunate too. It was nother pen shoot out that got him to the 2007 final as well. If those 3 shoot outs (of which he had minimal control) had gone the other way, his legacy at Liverpool would be significantly diminished and he'd perhaps never of got a job like Inter (and now Chelsea).

 

[BCR]

Is he? I doubt he's got the best reputation in Italy!

Maybe but the Italians are weird, how often does the manager and players just jump from Inter to AC and vice versa? Strange them.

 

[BCR]

Is he? I doubt he's got the best reputation in Italy!

Maybe but the Italians are weird, how often does the manager and players just jump from Inter to AC and vice versa? Strange them.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Is he? I doubt he's got the best reputation in Italy!

Fair point. I think winning La Liga a couple of times with a team other than Barca or Real, UEFA Cup and Champions League deserves a lot of respect.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

To be fair to Moyes (and a lesser extent Pulis), they've not been given the chance to manage a club genuinely capable of challenging for top honours. Moyes has been unlucky in that Arsenal and United have long term managers and Liverpool are Everton's main rival. That's the 3 biggest job's in England unavailable to him. Chelsea have always appointed managers who have won things and City and Spurs have only recently come to the fore. Moyes I think is due a big job in the next 6-18 months...surely.

Rafa certainly in the right environment can be a very good manager, he did well with Valencia and Liverpool. However Liverpool's 2 cup wins came from moments of brilliance from Gerrard and 2 penalty shoot outs. So whilst he did well to get them that far, he was also quite fortunate too. It was nother pen shoot out that got him to the 2007 final as well. If those 3 shoot outs (of which he had minimal control) had gone the other way, his legacy at Liverpool would be significantly diminished and he'd perhaps never of got a job like Inter (and now Chelsea).

If we won 3 penalty shoot outs consecutively, can we say it's down to luck?

Man Utd score a lot of late goals, and have done so for decades - is it down to luck or is it because they are very good?

And as you say, we did extremely well to get into a final and get to pen shoot outs. Should a 10 min period of penalties negate the months of hard work and good football prior to that moment?

But you do make a good point about being in the right environment. Valencia and Liverpool were great places for him to thrive. You can't really say the same about Inter because he wasn;t there for long - people will talk about his time there but I believe he was only about 10 points behind the leaders (I say only!) but Inter did have around 3 matches in hand as well. Ifs and buts, but imagine if he had won all three?

 

[Muppetfinder General]

Is he? I doubt he's got the best reputation in Italy!

Your doubts are unfounded. The Inter fans said they preferred his football to Mourinho's. Some of the players agreed, the ones who didn't cry like little girls when Mourinho left.

It was only the Inter hierarchy who didn't get on with Rafa because they didn't want to spend to rejuvenate a treble-winning side, which is generally what treble-winning sides need. it's no coincidence only one team has ever repeated a treble and they're Egyptian. Where do you go when you've won a treble? Down.

Hodgson's reputation is very low with Inter fans, who threw coins and lighter at him, yet the UK media lectured us that being at Inter meant Hodgson was quality. His W-D-L stats were worse in 18 months than Rafa's in 3 (which are better than BR's at Liverpool) and when the UK media and Fergie say Hodgson was at Inter twice, they omit the fact the 2nd time was only for 3 games.

 

[One of the lads]

I'd be surprised if the Inter fans preferred losing football matches to winning the European Cup regardless of how pretty the football was. Rafa's hardly known for flair football anyway, Liverpool would sometimes use two defensive midfielders at Anfield!

 

[Tobes]

If we had won a single game, then we can say it's 'fortuitous'. However, we beat Juventus (Italian Champs at the time), Bayer Leverkusen (were the 2nd best team in Germany at the time), Chelsea (PL Champs at the time) and AC Milan who were arguably the best club team around at that time.

Don't get me wrong - we weren't the best team there (on paper) but to win that many matches against quality opposition shows you how good he is tactically and 'good luck' and 'fortune' shouldn't come into thought. Houllier's team wasn't that good so he didn't 'inherit' a great squad.

Big clubs need a figure head who doesn't bow down to fan and player pressure. I can't really think of a top class manager who doesn't have a lot of control at their respective clubs?

The achievement was still fantastic, but even the most ardent Red would surely admit that you rode your luck throughout that cup run & not just in the final. Anyway, that's a side issue to my view of him.

Benitez wanted the control without the responsibility imo. As he was given all the power he asked for at Anfield in the end, but still chose to blame everyone & his dog, when it started going wrong. He's not one that you'd like to have next to you in the trenches when the **** was flying imo.

He's followed the same MO at Inter & now Chelsea, he's proving that he's either not that good or he's past his sell by date.

 

[astro]

There have been lots of interviews with Chelsea fans over the last few days and it's hilarious the way they are all trying to claim that if only Rafa had begged for their affection in his first press conference everything would have been fine.

 

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

If we won 3 penalty shoot outs consecutively, can we say it's down to luck?

Man Utd score a lot of late goals, and have done so for decades - is it down to luck or is it because they are very good?

And as you say, we did extremely well to get into a final and get to pen shoot outs. Should a 10 min period of penalties negate the months of hard work and good football prior to that moment?

But you do make a good point about being in the right environment. Valencia and Liverpool were great places for him to thrive. You can't really say the same about Inter because he wasn;t there for long - people will talk about his time there but I believe he was only about 10 points behind the leaders (I say only!) but Inter did have around 3 matches in hand as well. Ifs and buts, but imagine if he had won all three?

I'm not saying penalties are luck. But pretty much a manager can't do a lot when it goes to pens. So I wouldn't say Liverpool were lucky to win 3 pen shoot outs but I would say Rafa was lucky his team won all 3 shoot outs. There's not a lot that tactics can do when it comes down to that. Like I said, if you lost those 3 shoot outs he'd have left Anfield with no trophies albeit having done some other good work.

 

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

There have been lots of interviews with Chelsea fans over the last few days and it's hilarious the way they are all trying to claim that if only Rafa had begged for their affection in his first press conference everything would have been fine.

Begged is a bit of an exagerration.

Just shows the arrogance of the man that he thinks he can just waltz into a club that he's previously made digs about and just state that as long as he gets results the Chelsea fans will be won over.

True to a point, but he's made his job harder by may be not acknowledging that what he said at the time was wrong (even if he meant it). How many people pay some lip service to get the fans on side when they go to a new club. Benitiez thought he was above that, he hasn't appeased the fans and it arguably has contributed to his downfall.

 

[Foredeckdave]

To be fair to Moyes (and a lesser extent Pulis), they've not been given the chance to manage a club genuinely capable of challenging for top honours. Moyes has been unlucky in that Arsenal and United have long term managers and Liverpool are Everton's main rival. That's the 3 biggest job's in England unavailable to him. Chelsea have always appointed managers who have won things and City and Spurs have only recently come to the fore. Moyes I think is due a big job in the next 6-18 months...surely.

Rafa certainly in the right environment can be a very good manager, he did well with Valencia and Liverpool. However Liverpool's 2 cup wins came from moments of brilliance from Gerrard and 2 penalty shoot outs. So whilst he did well to get them that far, he was also quite fortunate too. It was nother pen shoot out that got him to the 2007 final as well. If those 3 shoot outs (of which he had minimal control) had gone the other way, his legacy at Liverpool would be significantly diminished and he'd perhaps never of got a job like Inter (and now Chelsea).

If you want to view a managers record in that way then you need look no further than you beloved RDM. His whole Chelsea management record has far more to do with luck and other people's decisions than it does with his own ability as a manager.

 

[astro]

If you want to view a managers record in that way then you need look no further than you beloved RDM. His whole Chelsea management record has far more to do with luck and other people's decisions than it does with his own ability as a manager.

It was RDM's tactics that made Messi miss the penalty that would have had Chelsea playing the Europa League this season.

 

[Foredeckdave]

The achievement was still fantastic, but even the most ardent Red would surely admit that you rode your luck throughout that cup run & not just in the final. Anyway, that's a side issue to my view of him.

Benitez wanted the control without the responsibility imo. As he was given all the power he asked for at Anfield in the end, but still chose to blame everyone & his dog, when it started going wrong. He's not one that you'd like to have next to you in the trenches when the **** was flying imo.

He's followed the same MO at Inter & now Chelsea, he's proving that he's either not that good or he's past his sell by date.

None of us will ever know the truth. However, a number of supposedly 'informed' commentators have suggested that Benitez's control was largely illusonary with contracts, transfer kittys, etc being changed without any reference to him. Yet, as he has now said he will also do at Chelsea, he continued to give his all for the club. So, on reflection, I think I would stand in trench with him.

 

[One of the lads]

If you want to view a managers record in that way then you need look no further than you beloved RDM. His whole Chelsea management record has far more to do with luck and other people's decisions than it does with his own ability as a manager.

This is a red letter day. I agree with Angry Dave.

 

[Chief]

Your doubts are unfounded. The Inter fans said they preferred his football to Mourinho's. Some of the players agreed, the ones who didn't cry like little girls when Mourinho left.

It was only the Inter hierarchy who didn't get on with Rafa because they didn't want to spend to rejuvenate a treble-winning side, which is generally what treble-winning sides need. it's no coincidence only one team has ever repeated a treble and they're Egyptian. Where do you go when you've won a treble? Down.
Hodgson's reputation is very low with Inter fans, who threw coins and lighter at him, yet the UK media lectured us that being at Inter meant Hodgson was quality. His W-D-L stats were worse in 18 months than Rafa's in 3 (which are better than BR's at Liverpool) and when the UK media and Fergie say Hodgson was at Inter twice, they omit the fact the 2nd time was only for 3 games.

When Manchester United won the treble in 1999 they followed it up by winning the league the next two consecutive seasons.

Hardly down, just saying.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

When Manchester United won the treble in 1999 they followed it up by winning the league the next two consecutive seasons.

Hardly down, just saying.

Well it is down, just not as low down as you was assuming Muppet meant.

 

[Chief]

Not as low as Rafa took Inter, no.

Winning the league is never down, the cups are always a mere bonus.

 

[One of the lads]

Not as low as Rafa took Inter, no.

Winning the league is never down, the cups are always a mere bonus.

Far too much made of cup competition wins. Pompey won the FA Cup a few years back. A team doesn't need to win that many games to win a cup.