Have we missed the boat?

Crestfallen? I dont understand. Was there a clause in DB's contract that said if he ****s off to a big hotel in B'ham, crosses his fingers and says skinchy we have to sell him whether we want to or not?

It was 100% the decison of the Board, Chairman and the manager to sell him or not. The reason they looked so worried is that they knew Bruce simply hadnt planned for this inevitable scenario. They knew Campbell was out long term and that the club would now have to survive with a bunch of players that couldnt score goals to save their lives.

The club threw our season away in January and now just want to pretend it was everone elses fault. it wasnt and this whole affair stinks and has left Bruces credibility in tatters and Quinnys reputation as the 'great visionary' somewhat stained.

 

Maybe it is. Haven’t you ever stopped to consider that many fans just haven’t bought into Bruce from day one and it’s his inability to attract full houses which has led to the club cashing in on Bent? If this is so, they should come clean instead of adding insult to injury. I didn’t like Peter Reid the man but respected Peter Reid the manager and the football we watched was scintillating at times. Bruce’s football is hardly scintillating is it? Effective yes but not exciting.

 

Bruce looked absolutely bewildered by it.

Quinn had a clearly pre-prepared line which he wasn't gonna deviate from.

IMO the decision to sell Bent belonged to one man, Mr Ellis Short.

Is Ellis beyond reproach?

For me, he is , yes.

Quinn is a figurehead, nothing more.

Bruce is the team manager, if the owner says it's happening, there's little (nothing) he can do.

I'll be the first to say Bruce is the main man who deserves flak for the collapse, but i again reiterate, i don't see any way or any genuine reason to back up that he was in any way responsible for the Bent sale.

 

And yet the simple fact that no planning was in place. What if Bent was injured in January and out for 4 months say? Do you think SAF, Wenger or Ancelotti dont have contingency plans in place. Good managers have players watched and checked out months and months ahead of bids going in. With Bent wanting off in August its no use looking crestfallen 6 months later when he does go.

Either the club comes clean and admits theres no money or we should have brought a replacement. However, with season ticket sales on the horizon, they wouldnt do that would they. Perhaps its why Quinny decided to throw a smokescreen up over the missing fans. It stopped us all talking about where the money is from Bents sale and why no replacements were sought.

Perhaps there is much more to this whole affair than at first meets the eye?

 

I would say that it's more like many fans didn't buy into Bruce from the start simply because of his Tyneside roots and are ready to pounce on him at every possible opportunity!
Note: I don't put you into this category as I know you were one of his biggest supporters when he signed.

 

I think this scenario may be the one closest to the facts mate.

I think Ellis exceeded his planned budget with the Gyan purchase, and was then asked for money for Sessegnon, and to cover 60k wages for Muntari.

I personally think at this point Ellis decided to sell Bent, but i do believe Ellis will back us with money for next season.

He'll have an annual budget, and we have to bear in mind that we ain't seen ANY money for Bent yet, we paid off Spurs, and we will be due the full amount now as Villa stayed up.

There ain't £24million from the sale, be more like £16million after paying Spurs etc, we also are due to receive the forgotten about £4million or so for Kenwyne, as Stoke stayed up.

There'll be money now, but there wasn't any left in the January pot, that's my opinion.

 

I'm struggling to put a date on a quote of Niall's but I'm pretty sure it was before the Bent saga. It was to the effect that we needed increased revenues to meet wage demands. I don't think he was only talking about potential new signings but that he knew that Bent wanted more money and if he didn't get it he'd be open to offers.
The need to balance the books is important and I believe the Club were desperate to offload as many of the highly paid players who did not figure in their plans. Either they didn't achieve that objective or failed to raise the money required to pay the higher wages but the effect of that is seen in our poor second half to the season.
Business is not always fair and I'm sure Niall and Bruce did what they thought they could but the Club has suffered because of it and they are culpable. Short will need some convincing to retain them and him having put up the sums he has my judgement is he will stick with Bruce but will probably dispense with Niall. We do have a Chief Executive and if he is any good we should be able to function without too much difficulty. It may all boil down to the terms of the contract that Niall has.
It may be cruel but that's life. In my opinion, like.

 

RA White - I am gutted that my stance on Bruce has come to this because I was totally convinced that we had the right man for the right club at the right time. I felt assured that we had at last turned a corner as a club and appointed Steve Bruce.

To find myself now finding more fault than credibility with him has left me crestfallen. I would so love to be proved so wrong next season mate and I genuinely mean that but I have this uneasy feeling that he cant turn it round now. The handling of the Bent affair - both form the players and boardroom perspective - tells me he isn’t big enough or strong enough to take us any further IMO.

A truly sad outcome to what promised so much 2 years ago.

I guess his buys in the summer and the financial support he receives will tell us a lot about the future of Mr. Steve Bruce and if he can get it right I reserve the right to once again offer him my support. I'm more than happy to say I was wrong and come back cap in hand but as with Sbragia, I just know in my heart of hearts, it’s not right anymore.

 

Pont,

The thing is with the increasing revenues, the club stated that to go from a 40k average to a 48k average would only increase NET income by about £1.8million.

Peanuts to a Premier League club, in perspective, Bent was on £40k a week. There's the gate money gone.

We need a Kenyon/Levy type figure, we need the club promoted on a worldwide stage.

Without this our upper ceiling is maybe 10 points a season more than this.

Not quite Europa.

Niall, chairman, figurehead.

A.N.Other chief executive/whatever they wanna call it.

It's essential.

 

Quinn has said along along that a full vibrant stadium is what he needs to help promote the club on the global stage. Instead we have had empty seats and a flat atmosphere for far too many of our games in recent years.
It's a chicken and egg situation were one will lead to another, but in this case i believe that it has to be the supporters who take the lead role unless you can get financed in the way that Chelsea and Man City have.

 

Although it is deemed heresy to suggest but you are spot on Diver. The club needs to be much more professional off the pitch than they currently are.

Niall is a living legend at SAFC and in the game in general but it’s that very fact that hampers our progress IMO. We dare not utter words like 'time to move on' and maybe we need a Kenyon like figure as CEO but its fact.
Quinny can be the Life President or a figurehead for as long as he likes but the simple fact is we need to be much more business like off the pitch to promote and develop the club globally.

 

well the gate money was gone if eveyone payed 1 pound but yeah it wont be that much increase if we filled the stadium every week.

1: Our wage bill is 75% of our revenue
2: We have a wage cap of i think £40,000 per week
3: If we broke that to please Bent, then every player would have wanted more.
4: its not just the £40,000 extra a week, its what you would have to pay everyone, so instead of just 1 £40,000 increase it would probably end up at a £500,000-£1,000,000 increase a week when all is said and done.

The bottom line is, we are not as big as we, the supporters think we are, even just in England never mind the rest of the world. Merchandise is where its at, and we have a hell of a long way to go before we can match the Man United`s and Liverpools of this world, even the NUFC`s of this world, if anything their climb up but didnt win anything has done, is giving them a well respected worldwide following, which = more cash from merchandise.

 

I think the fans have been doing their but for 40 years kidda. Its up to the club to keep up IMO. A 40,000 average is no chicken **** crowd mate. The product has to be worth the effort for the missing fans to return.

Over to you Short, Quinn and Bruce?

 

Agreed.

40,ooo average is magnificent, but the atmosphere is dog turd, 80% of the time.

A great atmosphere doesn't help financially mind.

 

We certainly are not a Man utd or Chelsea but we deserved better than to sell our best player for a decade half way through a season when we were bombing and not even try to replace him which led to us bombed out?

 

Regarding the whole Bent saga, we actually know very few facts, it is assumed that Bent wanted more money and Villa offered it from around 40 to 80 a week seems to be the ballpark, we were not prepared to up our wages and let him go. It does seem if this is true we could and should have done more to keep him, as with Blackpool and Adams. Adams wanted a bigger wage and Liverpool were prepared to pay , Blackpool said **** off not until the summer! Could and should we have not done the same. The skunks were offered pots of money for Miss Carol and having 3/4 other strikers and a greedy fat man a owner took the loot. I thought we were not desperate for money..so why sell. Or at least bring one of Villa surples forwars as a loanee, could that not have been negotiated, FFS are we morons or what.

Another problem was when we sold Jones, personally no problem with that as Gyans' a much better player. However we would have probably got him cheaper if the Jones sale had gone on after the Gyan purchase..so a mistake there. A further mistake was KJ best contribution was often in front of his own goal defending set pieces. When we left he was missed for this role and we became a very soft touch from corners and free kicks..what was done strengthen this.... sweet fanny adams. Do you think that was after selling Jones for 8 and paying 13 for Gyan there was no more money n the pot!!!

 

Very good post mate

Tell you what, such small things as the kit supplier, i bet we sold a hell of a lot of Nike shirts, in comparison to what we sell now.

Umbro is very respectable/respected, Nike had a certain significance.

I know Nike supply some smaller clubs, but they actually PAID us for the honour, not just supplied.

Nike or Adidas will sell shirts.

Not having Tombola on the front will sell shirts.

Things like this DO appeal to a global market.

 

Very good point on Kenwynes defensive qualities, he used to win a huge amount of near post crosses from corners.

This has been a great thread by the way Cest, proper debate, proper valuable and thought out opinions from all

 

We did try as i have said before and bruce said before.

Who was out there to buy anyway?.

I dont know anyone, and even if the player was out there, why would a club sell their best striker (that still wanted to play for them and didnt spit his dummy out/want more money). and because of the wage cap we have, because we have to have it, which decent striker would come for a drop in wages, that was also getting 1st team football for his parent club.

you make it sound so easy, when in reality, its a right head doer for the club.

 

We should have took Carew from Villa.

We should have went for Gudjohnsson, who was free.

Did i want these 2 at the time? Did i ****.

Hindsight, making intelligent people look like ****ing idiots for 1000 years...