Undoubtedly many have flourished and matured under Wenger but with the number of careers stuttering at our club you have to speculate what Wenger fails to get out of them. His success rate in developing players has undoubtedly diminished. * Gervinho got 14 goal and 14 assists in France but looks soo clumsy it's embarrassing (Is the French league that bad?) * TV was a relatively solid Centre Back when he first joined from Ajax but has consistently regressed ever since season over season * Squillaci was a former France international and had one the league with Lyon a couple of times has been a huge failure * Chamakh was a league winner and key contributor to Bordeaux team There are those who have flourished but it's taken many, many years (Theo, RVP) perhaps another could have brought that out of them sooner? If it's not the coaching it's the scouting and these players really weren't good enough to begin with either way the blame must line with Wenger
You could point out any team and pick out a handful of players who haven't had the impact it was thought they would.
I don't think any coach would get more out of your midfield/attack but they most certainly would out of your defence. Wenger puts little/no emphasis on the defensive side of the game, something confirmed by Pires when he was at Villa.
Exactly. Wenger has demonstrated many flaws over the past few seasons, but the biggest for me is his seeming inability to learn from mistakes. Arsenal players make the same errors game after game, season after season. In most teams, the training regime would be changed to attempt to educate the players and ensure that those mistakes don't occur again. Unfortunately, at Arsenal, Wenger seems not to be interested in eradicating these errors from his player's game. Wenger appears to be the only person in the world who cannot or will not see the flaws in the Arsenal set-up. Consequently, nothing is ever going to change.
How many games have we seen they cant even take a corner . Yet Wenger is capable of getting the best out of players ..? Laughable.
Yeah: 16 corners yesterday. And how many of them resulted in an acceptable cross? Probably no more than 3.
Yep, it's the same mistakes made each game. The reason why many (not me) gave United a chance against Real is because they cut these errors out their game. Ferdinand attempted a back pass in a Manchester Derby a few years ago from which City scored, he's never made the same mistake again, same with Vidic re: Torres. The problem is with Wenger's socialist wage structure is that there is no actual need for the likes of Denilson, Arshavin, Gervinho, Squillaci, Djourou etc to improve meanwhile the top players will have a look round the dressing room and think "Why am I on less money than Arshavin when I contribute far more?". Anybody that thinks RVP's move and Walcott pushing for a new contract needs their head examined IMO. We aren't privy to the facts regarding Arsenal's financial situation so it's difficult to criticise him for not being able to compete with the cash rich clubs but what he can be blamed for his coaching and wage structure. Chelsea, City and United finishing above Arsenal given their financial muscle is understandable but Spurs who have less? Or even Everton? If/when that happens pressure on Wenger should rightly increase.
Whatever you think of Wenger and his often one eyed view of a game (and why not it's perfectly natural to support your club) he has brought much to the English game. He has transformed Arsenal into a team known for it's attractive football, a major turn around. Manager's of his quality do not come around very often. From the tactics on the pitch to the diet of his players he has changed and innovated. He will be a very hard act to follow, if I was an Arsenal fan I would be more concerned about the inevitable end of his career and what is to follow than a bit of a low in any one season.
Actually yes. Someone like Mourinho or Ferguson would. Wengers teams only play one way but we no longer have the firepower to really pull it off. We still play with the high line etc.. Most managers would see our midfiled is our strong point so we would get set up a little deeper and more than likley play with an extra midielder. I would do something like this.. --------------------Sczezney--------------------- Sagna---Mertescaker-----Vermaelen-----Gibbs -------------------Koscielney-------------------- ----Carzorla--------Arteta--------Diaby-------- --------------------Wilshere--------------------- ------------Walcott/Giroud/Podolski------------
I'd have this: Szsesny Sagna Vermaelen Mertesacker Cole Flamini Fabregas Cazorla Wilshere Nasri Van Persie
I thought the question was. 'How would another coach do with the same squad? Besides I would have Arteta over Flamini.
Cole was always leaving Flamini probably could have been kept but I'd prefer Song/Arteta Fabregas was always leaving Nasri might or might not have been kept (Rumors said Board forced AW to sell him) RvP (See Nasri brackets)
That being said I think Wenger doesn't get as much as he could defensive and offensive wise, but he gets far more than enough midfield wise. The offensive (final 3rd) part could be corrected with a formation changer (442 with Theo and Giroud) while defensively we might need more coaching
Those players? Maybe. I don't see how they'd stop Gervinho missing sitters but a more direct style of play would suit a lot of your players, him included. Wenger seems to be slowly and begrudgingly bringing in the less "pretty" but more effective style of play but he's never going to fully embrace it even in what you'd consider tough times. Vermaelen? Again, I'm not sure they can stop him miscuing clearances but a different style of play and a proper holding midfielder would ease the pressure on the defence. A new manager could bring this. The bigger question though is could another manager get more out of the team? Yeah I think so but not much better, this isn't a squad that can challenge for the title, for example. Anyone who says Wenger's the best man for the job would surely have to accept that your squad is performing above their ability. A new manager could do worse, they could do better but you'll never know until Wenger finally leaves. If you're not happy with battling it out for 4th each year it's hard to see what merit their is in keeping Wenger.
Of course PISKIE, another blindingly obvious response by you As usual you missed the point of the post, I would expect every team has players the manager has failed to get the most out of but I only give a toss about Arsenal and Wenger If fans are beginning to turn on him due to the unquestionably poor performances and discuss his replacement the question is whether or not he is failing to get the most out of his players. If these players are better than the performances he generates from them then new signings aren't the issue Wenger is If it's down to the quality of the players then there is a failure at the scouting level..our success rate with new players is worse than the early Wenger years...there will always be a few duds but look at how many players (some who cost a fair bit) have lowered there standards since arriving
On the contrary. The point being that your OP was singling out Wenger, asking whether another coach could do better. You cited that Wenger had bought players who didn't live up to expectation. I countered that with the fact that every club has bought players that haven't lived up to their hype. It is not unique to Wenger.
Ok, what gets me is that the basis of this thread is made up entirely from a stupid theory of yours, you think that Arsene Wenger has lost his ability to develop players when we are currently in an incredibly prosperous era of money making from developing players and selling them. Fantastic logic, delete yourself.
