I've never really completely disagreed with you on this issue, though I've never been as passionate about the point as you have, however for the past few weeks I have to admit I have found myself firmly in your corner as well
Thankyou Munky I have noticed. 2,699 and counting. Anyone else, I'm on a roll!! RedRuth? you seem to be more on the side of football?
If carrabuh is correct, nothing CH and his staff can possibly do EVER (never mind over the next few days) is going to make any difference. His opinion is that our current players lack the basic requirements of being able to keep possession and pass accurately under pressure. He says you could drop a pin on any Spanish or Portuguese club team sheet and hit on a player who can do it; er, does Garrido pass the test; was Dani P really so good at that? All that's as may be -- or not, but it sure isn't very helpful right now, since we have the players we have and the task is to stay in the league. Fortunately, there are other PL sides who are no better at it than us, so if we just start doing what we can do a bit better, we'll be OK. CH and his staff at least have some chance of influencing things to that extent -- even before Saturday. redruth asks: "Are there really no players out there who fit our bill? Was the only player available out there in the USA? Is every decent player out of our price range?" If he means British players, the answer appears to be Yes! Paul Lambert went on record towards the end of his spell with us saying that in his opinion the well was dry. Since then he has trawled the lower divisions for Villa and come up with Bennett, Lowton and Westwood. How are Villa doing right now; did we make a huge mistake not signing those three ourselves? I've suggested before that we should start a debate on what we would like to see happening in the future, a hypothetical debate. That's different from meaningful discussion of the here and now. IMO it would help to keep the two separated.
It's this whole black/white thing again, the second you suggest that we could possibly be playing a bit more expansive with a bit more confidence going forward, or perhaps look overseas to bring in some more technically gifted players you get accused of wanting to throw caution to the wind, play six up front and go at it hell for leather whilst trying to sign half the Barcelona squad on mega-bucks. There's no middle ground with some folk on here, though I do appreciate that sometimes it is more difficult to have proper reasoned debate through the medium of posting online when you don't know the other person, rather than when you're down the pub with your mates. We've had plenty of disagreements over the seasons Carrabuh, and no doubt we will have plenty more in the future, but I personally think the way you and your opinions (which are clearly based on a great deal of knowledge of the game) are treated on this forum is pretty shocking at times
Let me try something else. This is a serious, absolutely straight question to carrabuh. On Saturday we face Fulham at Carrow Road. What team would you put out, and what would your instructions to them be? (I am sure you aren't going to tell them to do anything they are incapable of).
robbie - The 11 players that were on the pitch against QPR were not radically different from those who played against Swansea, the only difference was Whitttaker and Howson were in the team in place of Turner and Tettey on Saturday, so why the change in tactics and lack of attacking threat?? It may well be the case that CH has decided that PL survival is of the utmost importance and we'll see more games as dire as those against Newcastle and QPR, but I'm sure I'm not alone in hoping that we'll see more attacking intent against Fulham and players willing to pass the ball out of defence, as opposed to thinking that they have to get rid of it upfield as fast as they can!!
Thats 4 then including me. Munky, I am suprised at some of the grief for the merest mention that we don't play football and we should pass the ball more. Some of it is self inflicted admittedly but it is ridiculous how many disagree with me vehemently and then moan as soon as we lose.
What disappoints me is that we didn't play badly against Chelsea and I thought the game against Citeh was excellent, even though we lost 4-3 - the games against Newcastle, Liverpool and QPR were poor, but I thought we acquitted oursleves well against Spurs and but for Bale's brilliance ....... - who knows what the result may have been?? There hasn't been a major shuffle of players (unlike PL when he was manager), so what has gone wrong?????
I'd have Bunn, Bassong, Turner, Martin, Garrido, Tettey, Fox, Snodgrass Pilkington, Hoolahan and Holt. I'd ask only Tettey be the one to stay back,he's moble enough on his own. If he wants to burst forward then Fox can sit back temporarily. I'd stop all the long early crosses, focus on working the ball more like we did against Spurs, further up the pitch, centrally and instead of going wide so early (like we normally do) make the wingers receive the ball higher up the pitch and more central. Feed them to run inside instead of easy out wide. We did that so well against Spurs in the first half. They can then pass the ball across instead of hitting the percentage area. May have to swap the wingers over.
We've been calling out for a deep lying playmaker for ages, we need someone in central midfield who has a football brain which isn't one dimensional. I always think having a player with this quality would change the shape of our team, we sit too deep for my liking sometimes, if you have a player who can spray the ball around and spot people in space then you've automatically put the opposition on the back foot you can ware them down physically and psychologically, nobody likes chasing shadows.
I went to the coventry crewe match tonight, and it was evidence that trying to play tika taka football with the wrong players doesn't work. Coventry dominated the game throughout, also had majority of possession, but because they didn't have the player to unlock the defence they got caught on the break three times. They had chances, but couldn't put the ball in the net. My point is we need to build from the back and bring quality attacking players who will improve are style of play. We have to be patient to improve our play and i think it will improve once we establish ourselves in the prem
All interesting stuff on here and a good reflection of where our club is at the moment and where it's heading, and the basic divide/choice that the club faces. Just two quick points. 1) I understand the argument some people are making that this year survival is the key thing and we have to achieve it in any way we can. However, there has to be some vision about what happens AFTER we survive, and, as Carrabuh points out, we aren't really creating something that we can build on in a positive sense. If we survive by playing as we have recently (deep defending, winning free kicks, hoping to pick up something from dead ball situations), do we repeat it next year and the year after that and the year after that? The Prem already have two teams like this who are 'solid' - Stoke and Sunderland - and there is no way I want City to end up like them, playing turgid, pointless football in order to come 13th for ten seasons in a row. 2) As someone pointed out (sorry, forgot who - I read all the posts and they blended into each other) there seems to be a general assumption that playing like we did against QPR WILL lead to survival and is more likely to lead to survival than a more expansive approach. But I can't see how we are going to score more than half a dozen goals in our last 13 matches playing as we have been. We have scored one in six, I think I am right in saying, including games against a Conference team, the bottom club in the league, at home to a club in a downward spiral at the time (Newcastle). And if we don't score, we're down, that's for sure. As I've said elsewhere, Reading and Southampton seem to be making a better (and braver) fist of it at the moment, and their players are no better than ours.
I never disagreed with your philosophy its just that I can't believe we don't have players in this country who can't pass the ball to each other and progress up the pitch without giving it away. I probably sound Anglophile. I'm not. If we we find some decent European players then fair dues. Maybe the improvd academy will improve the search in this country.
Having just posted my direct question to carrabuh last night, real life suddenly intervened! Apologies. Hope to get back on later today.
I would really love to sit down with Delia, Macca and CH over a couple of sherberts and debate it with them. I'm sure there are things we will never be privvy to despite the apparent transparency of the club. But I would genuinely love to be able to tell them how I feel and and obviously it should be balanced with the more conservative fans amongst us. We would start off with a common agenda of wanting the best for NCFC. Also, I want my great grandchildren going training and getting respect for wearing a Norwich shirt because they are a great respected club. At the moment, my grandchildren get the piss taken by all the pseudo Mancs, Scousers, Pensioners. Luckily, they are true City supporters and handle all that!
I personally would have Whittaker back in for Rusty now that he's fit, and encourage both full-backs to push on more and put pressure on the Fulham full-back. I'd also drop Tettey rather than Johnson, who I personally think has had a much better season and offers us more in the middle and gives the ball away far less. I would start with the wingers as they have been, but would look to switch them during the game to make us less predictable and I'd tell Holty to make more of a nuisance of himself in the final third rather than chasing everything down in our own half. But what do I know eh?
