Really? what exactly has Brenda delivered during his tenure so far? As from where I'm sat, you're in the same position that you were with Dogleash minus still being in the 2 domestic cup competitions & having a bank balance that's £40M lighter. The sheer arrogance of "normal service will soon be resumed" is a prime example of why you lot are so despised by other clubs fans btw.
how can you compare 10 yrs to 6months in a job TB. its a perfectly valid point he hasn't achieved much in that time,also don't give a **** what other clubs fans think of us, their problem not mine.
I wasn't comparing it, Billy made that comparison, try reading the thread like. There's a fine line between confidence & arrogance Jenners & Billy gave a prime example of the latter, it's something you lot are great at, at times.
Of course the calibre of the club doesn't make it easy but doesn't it mean a manager should have a certain level of expectation? Granted you can forgive him not winning because of where you finish in the league and that's fine if you can live without trophies. The problem then is you just have this Arsenal mentality...a certain league position is in itself a trophy...and really that's seen them reach a level and then the ambition to go any further just isn't there. The mentality of the club goes from fighting to win things to being happy about an average league position (average relative to what could be achieved with a bit more ambition). As for the argument about not winning things because the cream of the crop were still there, I don't buy that at all. We were in the middle of our worst run in 50 years when you played us in the semi. Over the last ten years I can also remember you going out to the likes of Shrewsbury, Fulham and Blackburn who were all teams you could have beaten at the time. Obviously Moyes could go another ten years without a trophy and if he kept the club in and around the top 4 area he might well keep the fans happy. He'd still ultimately be remembered as a manager who didn't have the ability/mentality to compete AND win though. I think that would hurt him a lot. Maybe he just needs a fresh challenge.
Utter bollocks that. There's a direct correlation between cash spent & winnning pots. Moyes has spent £13M net in 10 years at the helm. Rodgers has already spent 4x that amount net, in 6 months. It's all very well pontificating about ambition levels, but there's also something called 'reality' & the sad reality for EFC is that we're owned by a man who can't / won't fund the business out of his own pocket. Therefore we simply can't compete on an equal financial footing with our peers. Your comparison to yourselves last season is laughable, as you were on a bad run of form, but you'd still spent over £100M net in the previous 18 months. If Moyes had been given a fraction of what a succession of Liverpool managers have squandered on durge, then I'm sure he'd have delivered pots & CL football. Moyes once used the expression; "taking a knife into a gun fight" & that about sums it up for me, he's been hamstrung by our finances & what he's managed to deliver even with that massive handicap, is nothing short of outstanding.
Don't be so melodramatic TB obviously "normal service will soon be resumed" was just a nice big fat juicy worm placed very carefully to try and get a bite Works every time btw. As for Rodgers of course the jury is still out, he's only been there 6 months and when I say he's acheived exactly what Moyes has I'm right surely. So far he's won nothing, improved our football slightly and got us into an average league position Pretty much akin to the "Ginger One" and his record of success.
Moyes has done a brilliant job with the finances available to him don't think many would argue with that, but you cant say he would have delivered pots and CL football if given money to spend that other managers have had as he could be no dif to where you are at now. also the very fact that 2 cup finals is seen as a failure now days for a manager is a worrying factor in itself, as it doesn't really give any manager a leg to stand on when the owners want to get rid.
Moyes own words last year was dreaming of a cup to crown his long tenure at goodison... Moyes has done ok but shot himself in the foot quite a few times as well... lescott is just one example of that. His style has consistently fallen short frankly but i do not for the life of me understnad how every year he so neglects the league cup as a route to silver and only tries for the FA cup it seems. when the top team comes round everton seem to go to the sheell on the big day. on occasion they hammer a big team too but usually with nothing on the line. All in all a good functional professional side with less meantal stigma than say stoke who've got a similar squad and thats why they are up there or there abouts for 4th. you've gotta do more to take the next step. everton have no more or less moeny from tv, stadium etc than spurs and have bought some players for a lot of money too but spurs have made that next step despite gross instability over the period everton have had moyes. LFC are just a complete joke as bad as anything spurs did in their 20-30 years of dross and yet still have more potential to deliver. the nice thing is tobs is a complete obsessive and this proves which club is always going to be bigger. i know of not one reds fan obsessed by everton but a few evertonians who are so obsessed.
Why does spending stop you competing for a cup? Bradford or Swansea will end this season with a trophy. How does their respective spending stack up against Evertons over the last ten years? Like I say it's (partly) a mentality issue. I won't argue that he'd have had a better chance given the cash we've spent, of course it helps, but it's not like we haven't had issues with owners to deal with either is it. Give me Kenwrights business plan over Hicks and Gilletes any day of the week. What you fellas have to remember is that we earned a lot of the money we spent by punching well above our weight in Europe. We have kept our profile higher than it would have been by still winning trophies. We beat a lot of European teams who spent way more than we were spending. So it's not utter bollocks at all...finances are undoubtedly an issue, but they are also an easy excuse and as Swansea and Bradford have shown a low net spend is not an impenetrable barrier to success. It might be "taking a knife into a gun fight" but after ten years of practice Moyes should have at least learned to throw the knife straight
Everton and Spurs, that's a comedy comparison. Spurs are in a different league when it comes to finance. Everton are so skint they did a sale and leaseback deal on their training ground while Spurs are planning to build a new stadium! Moyes has done a cracking job at Everton. That's obvious to anyone without an agenda.
I don't think anyone's saying Moyes hasn't done a good job NOF. He quite simply has. If Everton fans are happy with him league position over trophies then that's their choice (and every fan knows the cups are great but your league is the bread and butter). It doesn't alter the fact though that after ten years of trying (and he's openly admitted how much it means to him) he hasn't won a single trophy. That for me is now the difference between him being a good manager and a great one. Ps...all fans have an agenda, that includes you Fancy seeing you on here btw
As far as I'm concerned, Moye's is an outstanding manager. He's kept Everton there or there abouts with comparatively very little in the way of funds. My reporter mate tells me he's a good guy as well. He also likes Rodgers. I say fair play to him. Not sure how he'd do outside of the Everton environment, but there's nothing to suggest he wouldn't do very well.
Moyes has done a great Job IMO we were relegation material with last day escapes to our name and since he came he's turned us around to where we are now...That's the bigger picture I look at yes we have been Involved In cupsets (like most teams) and could have done better on occasions but overall the last 10 years under Moyes has to be seen as success.. We were bad and If we had slipped down TBH we were not the side at the time you would have put money on to bounce straight back up other teams In and around the same position as us 10years ago have gone down come back up and gone down again..Thats a difficult trend to buck only Stoke have come up and stayed up as I can remember? It's quite easy to take the mick about Moyes not won anything In 10yrs but take a step back and look at the whole picture properly IMO yes now we should be looking to push on to the next level but you need money for that somthing we just do not have? Your not at a higher level than Everton even though you have spent a hell of allot more money so surely that shows how difficult It Is to crack the top 4 with hardly any money to deal with? And yes If you spend a hell of allot more money than Everton In the summer again you should be above us once again...but thats the point a club that has spent the money you have In the last 10 yrs should be light years ahead of us but your not I know your supposed to be In a transition season but you have still spent for the last 10 yrs and still compared to our Improvement over the last 10 yrs you find yourself 26 points behind Man Utd I wouldn't see that as a success at all considering the amount of money you guys have gone through... So Moyes with no money or Rodgers with no money I know who I would choose and I bet you would choose the same even though you may not admit It...
In the last 10yrs we've been European Champions(and won a couple of domestic cups)but none of us see being 26 points behind Utd as success, we let fans of other clubs make those kind of ridiculous remarks and credit us with them. We've had 5 managers since Moyes took over at Everton and money spent by them comes secondary to the time needed to create stability within the team/squad and build for the future(Utd and Chelsea being examples of both ends of that spectrum), Moyes has done a good job at the blues and that's been noted by clubs like Utd and Chelsea etc, if i was Kenwright i wouldn't let him go no matter how much compensation any club offered for his services, because his successor is likely to be average and will take you back to square one based on your spending power.
It's a farce of an argument to use "money, money, money" all the time though. As stated above we EARNED a lot of the money spent through good European runs and winning trophies. Leagues aside trophies can be won on a reasonable budget. Trophies would have got a bit more money rolling in and raised the clubs profile to investors. Every time we've chopped a manager we have to give the new guy cash and new managers rarely succeed with all their initial signings anyway. Give me a settled manager who has built a squad over a new face with a bit of cash to spend any day. We all know and openly admit that we've wasted shed loads of it on players who aren't good enough. We are a great example of exactly why money DOESN'T guarantee success. I don't see one single Reds fan classing where we are as a success though despite Brenda taking over at a club that was being run like a kindergarten, with instructions to bring the wage bill down and losing lots of experience in Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy. The question about Moyes with no money or Rodgers with no money is skewed and obviously. Biased towards Moyes. It's impossible to make a case for Rodgers yet other than to say he did well with Swansea on a tight budget. It's not impossible or unreasonable however to make a case that after ten years Moyes should have bagged a trophy or two by now
Whether you've earned the money that you spend or not, is largely irrelevant, the facts of the matter are, that more cash spent = more trophies in the cabinet. Look at the FA Cup, in the last 20 years, only 2 sides (Everton & Portsmouth) have lifted lifted that trophy as non Champions League clubs & the other winners (all CL clubs at the time of their win) total 5 - Arsenal, Liverpool, United, Chelsea & City. It's only the Mickey Mouse that the 'also rans' are given a chance in, as the big clubs aren't that bothered about it & have it as bottom of their priority list - hence this years final. Money DOES guarantee success, providing that it's a never ending supply. As if you throw enough at it, you will eventually win & that's a cast iron fact.
Yourself and PMK make some good points but money money money clearly does or SHOULD make a difference weather you have earned It through wins or not?Of course there Is a good possibility that Moyes with money wouldn't guarantee Improvement so I'm not knocking the fact some of your managers have spent highly on flops (so has Moyes TBF Bilyaletdinov for eg (sp)) I can't see that the League can be won on a reasonable budget at all look at Chelsea and Man C how much have they blown to win the Prem they have Money that In all likelyhood Everton will never see?? With regards our being happy with where we are league position and a chance hear and there at a cup then I'd like to think we are far more realistic than LFC fans thats all tbh? I mean theres no way on earth that we are going to be able to compete over a full season with Man U and Man C? Chelsea are not at their usual level and neither are Arsenal although Tottenham are doing well...Even with the money you spend (far and away more than us) there's no way you can compete with Man C I can't see them winning the league this year but a quick 60-70 million In the Market summer time and hey Presto Prem winning side again so Money DOES matter and It wasn't so long ago Liverpool were happy to get Into the top 4 and Champions league footy so why are we so wrong to be happy with the level we are at? I'd love to be at a higher level than we are but I'm more realistic also.. It's so so easy to say money doesn't matter when you have got It...It's great for you that you have owners with money for us I'm afraid as you already know without a sugerdaddy etc It just ain't gonna happen.. We are In a different league financially but In the same league footbally lol It would have been great for Moyes to win a cup or 2 of course but like I said relegation fodder year In year out to the top 4 In 05 and In and around the top 6 since and this year hoping to get Into the top 4 Is no mean feat...We were only 90 mins away from a cup win In 09" ok so we have not won a cup but I'd rather not win a cup and be where we are than In and out of the championchip because we all know that's what would have happened In all likelyhood without Moyes...
Are the Bitters never content? They wail and wail about how its unfair that they have no money yet they have failed to put the club in a position where it is an attractive enough proposition for a potential buyer. That's not our fault it is directly their own. So the argument between who is best between Moyes and Rodgers is a complete nonesense. Even if you took both from their present position then by the time that the window opens again Rodgers is far better off - even given the spending ctiteria laid down by FSG. Whereas Moyes is once again looking at a planned spend of next to nothing. I have to agree with Billy that Moyes has done quite well but you would have expected a pot by now. Rodgers we'll have to wait a litle time longer to evaluate in any meaningful way.
